Zinc additive

Just out of curiosity would the filters play any role in the zinc levels?

It may be a dumb question I just wasn't sure if some of the cheaper paper filters held more zinc in the fibers than others?
 
Hamilton Cams said:
There is no way I can test every oil out there.

Regardless of whichever brand of oil you use, it has to have a certain level of zinc to provide protection for a flat tappet cam. Newer oils designed for use with DPF's don't have adequate levels of zinc.

Larry do you know the ppm of zinc in the valvoline. If you are wanting to add to the information in this forum, by all means post up. If you are wanting to razz me because i make an additive that is needed with most modern oils, then by all means post up, I'm getting a kick out of it. Also, Why would you compare me to gale banks? I'm from Texas not cali. I guess you are entitled to your opinions. Got any other good one's? I'm sure you can think of a better name than Gale Banks.

Zach
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I have found a scene from the movie "Tommy Boy" that I would everyone to read...
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. ZACK HAMILTON:hehe: puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing too]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product.

BTW anyone with computer and internet can find out by going right to google and type in "PPM of zinc in __________ oil"

Great R&D Einstein.:clap:
 
Larry,
You sound like you have smoked too much pot today. I do love that quote though...........great movie! Sir, if you know a alot about oils, then, If I may use a quote from Billy Madison," by all means...................Proceed!" I am all ears. I am not an oil expert, but I do know without this additive big cams sieze or wipe off the lobes, and with it they don't. Is this explanation o.k. for you?
 
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Hamilton Cams said:
Larry,
You sound like you have smoked too much pot today. I do love that quote though...........great movie! Sir, if you know a alot about oils, then, If I may use a quote from Billy Madison," by all means...................Proceed!" I am all ears. I am not an oil expert, but I do know without this additive big cams sieze or wipe off the lobes, and with it they don't. Is this explanation o.k. for you?
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sounds like you learned from the race motor your cam destroyed. Who had to pick up the pieces from that?
 
I have never heard of a race engine being destroyed from a cam. High lift cams with high spring pressure, and low zinc oils yes. Contaminates in the oil gallies that caused havoc, yes. Someone not degreeing in a massive grind, yes, a cam causing an engine to blow up , no. Anything else? What exactly did my cam do to the engine in question. Do you have any facts sir? I'm still waiting for your thoughts on low zinc oils and which ones you recomend.
 
Stock short block ZINC additive test

Motor specs:

2004.5 CTD
126,000 miles
Stock shot block and stock cam
Hamilton 110# springs
Wicked injector tips 150hp - Injector bodies unknown mileage. Head return tests at idle shows 1.5floz
HTT 64/71/13ss
AFE PG7 filter.
Banks CAC from turbo to head.
Amsoil 15w40 ever since it came out.
TNT/R normally on #7 Timing 2, tm 1, rp 2. MP8- off/unplugged
Head gasket and studs installed last December. Oil changed at that time.

I total regret not having mileage reports for my last 2 oil changes. They were both done on a whim. When I did the head gasket it was determined it was a good time to ensure we have the oil system flushed. the second change was done because I some how managed to drain a good amount of coolant down the turbo return line on a turbo swap..... Don't ask me how on that one, it just happened.

And the repotrting changed! So, my history isn't here, but I plan to dig up my old reports and find the time frame where I have my heavier springs installed

The #1 sample on this report is at about 115,000 miles miles. I changed it when I got this report (and shortly after, when I head the head gasket done). The second report has about 1500 miles on it. If the ware is linear, then in 15,000 miles, the PPM should come close.

Since this oil does look very good, I'm not sure if I want to drop the oil right now and start fresh with the zinc additive. Zack? What do you think?

This zinc for a stock cam thing came to be when I read zack mention that wear starts even with heavier springs. then it clicked. CRAP, my Iron just kicked up for some reason last time, i figured it was because of the extra soot content being more of an abrasive in the oil (freaking smarty! :) ). So, lets give things a shot here. Can't hurt for a few dollars a bottle right?


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Since Zack is on his way down to TS I caught him on the phone. Here's the plan

It's not very economical to Do a $120 oil change right now. The oil is good.

So I'm going to just drop in the Zinc when I get my first bottle here. I'll sample the oil in about 1500 miles. If I see less then 50PPM, it's working. if I see the same or more, it's not. The Zinc should increase to 2000PPM.

At 130,000 I'll change out the oil, and both filters and sample prior to oil change. Then sample again at 1500 miles into that change. We should see some good data here.
 
The Zinc went in at 125,800 miles on the OD.

It's been since Friday that I've added the additive to the oil. So far one interesting thing to note is mysteriously the blue smoke puff I'd see on startup after sitting for 8 hours or so is gone.... Doesn't haze nearly as much on start up. I can only assume the zinc is doing something with the turbo seals. Or, the turbo seals finally settled in (center section was rebuild)... Not sure what to make of this.
 
less then 200 miles to go before I sample again. almost there. Been a long 1500 miles :) So far, the truck is running good no issues. no weird noises!
 
Staveley Services Fluid Analysis
Shell Rotella T 15-40 cj4 zinc1243,1097,1134ppm(1st sample after using delo)
Royal Purple 15-40 zinc1560ppm
Amsoil AME15-40 zinc1403,1336,1346,1315ppm
Valvoline Premium Blue 15-40 cj4 zinc 1295ppm(virgin)
Samples are in order as changed and each number is a different oil change. I quit taking samples when I changed to the Valvoline. I was having soot problems so I took off my bypass and just started changing my oil more often.
 
Zach,

What ppm of zinc could one expect one bottle of your zddp additive to raise in the 12qt crankcase?

Also, what size bottle does your stuff come in?

When I broke in my cam, (you weren't offering this product yet), I used two twelve ounce bottles of the cam break in stuff from Crane Cams. Used with Delo 400LE, this raised the zinc level to 1900 ppm as analyzed by blackstone labs after 2k miles on the oil. I think the Delo is around 1000 ppm virgin.

I'm just trying to get an idea of how much your zddp adds comparatively speaking.
 
1500 miles later

Well, 1500 miles later See report!

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I'm still concerned about the IRON! Everything has doubled from the first 1500 miles. However, the iron as more then doubled, I was expecting this to go down. I have been putting more stress and unnecessary tooling around in the last 1500 miles. So.... the zinc isn't over 2000, i've added maybe, say 1/2 quart due to some leaking issues I was taking care of. that it's tops, if that at all.

How abrasive is the soot in the oil? I've tuned things down recently to stop smoking at idle real bad. and it smokes less on light acceleration. i'm sure getting the gate fixed properly will also clean up the cruising and light acceleration soot big time.
 

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I've heard soot gets abrasive at 3. I would keep it under 2 if I were you. Any time mine got over 2 my vis would be at 50w.
 
fuelmiser said:
Staveley Services Fluid Analysis
Shell Rotella T 15-40 cj4 zinc1243,1097,1134ppm(1st sample after using delo)
Royal Purple 15-40 zinc1560ppm
Amsoil AME15-40 zinc1403,1336,1346,1315ppm
Valvoline Premium Blue 15-40 cj4 zinc 1295ppm(virgin)
Samples are in order as changed and each number is a different oil change. I quit taking samples when I changed to the Valvoline. I was having soot problems so I took off my bypass and just started changing my oil more often.
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This is what im doing as well.

I will just change my oil more frequent versus using high dollar oil.

Also the valvoline has only slightly less zinc than amsoil at a third of the cost of amsoil.
 
bsmith said:
This is what im doing as well.

I will just change my oil more frequent versus using high dollar oil.

Also the valvoline has only slightly less zinc than amsoil at a third of the cost of amsoil.
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If I can't keep my truck at 10K intervals, I'm going to have to do do the same.

I'm going to sample again in 1500 with the programming changed to level 5 the majority of the time.. Seriously less soot on a day to day easy drive to and from work and still as fast as the butt dyno can tell. That and getting the gate fixed somewhat with my hack has helped..

The main security blanket I do enjoy with Amsoil is it's ability to sustain heat well. if you have to shut down hot, you can worry very little that something's going to cook and leave crap bonded to rotating parts.

A local guy here at the first pull of the year managed to run his VP dry right at the 300foot mark and his truck shut off and wouldn't restart.... Can't imagine a worst case right there.. Zero issues as far as I hear.
 
Zach,
I agree that you should have extra additives in the oil during the the break in time on the cam. But how many ppm of zinc do consider adequate in the oil under normal conditions not break in?
 
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