215 pump retard timing

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BPhips5

blacksmoke junkie
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Aug 20, 2009
Messages
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ok. so i have heard that if you spin a 215 pump past its stock rpms you start to retard the timing. is this true? does this mean if you click your stock springs down the 3 click mod people talk about you hurt the timing in your truck?
 
Timing retards based on rack travel, not rpms. The more throttle you use, the more your timing is retarded.
 
its just retarded while using the throttle tho right? some guy said it retards it for good? i didn't think this happened but i wasnt sure.
 
I wouldn't listen to that guy. Basically if you have a plate that will allow it it you go WOT in a 215 pump the timing is retarded a few degrees until you let out of it a little. Its not going to hurt the truck, just your power.
 
alright thanks alot that what i thought. i was just second guessing myself.
 
I don't know much about them but from what I understand once the rack goes a certain distance it retards right? so what if your fuel plate is pulled back a bit?
 
Correct. If you use a plate in a position that will limit rack travel to pre-retarding levels the injection events will start at the "normal" time.
 
if im running a 100 plate slid all the way forward am i into the retard notches?
 
You are going to be into the retard notches in most throttle positions. If you limit your travel to stay out, you won't make much power at all. I'd say just advance the timing to compensate. I think it was retarded 4 degrees at full travel.
 
Tate said:
You are going to be into the retard notches in most throttle positions. If you limit your travel to stay out, you won't make much power at all. I'd say just advance the timing to compensate. I think it was retarded 4 degrees at full travel.
Click to expand...

so at wot... 4 degrees so with a 215 pump with the timing at say 18 degrees would I be safe with stock bolts? :pop:
 
At 19mm rack travel the retard notches start working.
I have noticed that if I set my plate back from Full Forward with an 8mm allen wrench, the truck pulls like a raped ape at WOT.

When I have the plate set Full Forward, I get HIGH EGTs and ALOT of extra smoke with no power gain.

I remember Weston saying you only needed like 13 or 14mm of rack travel to get in the 500+hp range.
 
weston posted this on another site

Timing starts to retard a little after 13mm of rack

Let's make this simple, using a starting point of 15° static advance;

13mm - 15°
14mm - 14.5°
15mm - 14°
16mm - 13.5°
17mm - 13°
18mm - 12.5°
19mm - 12°
20mm - 11.5°
21mm - 11°
 
tony597fitter said:
At 19mm rack travel the retard notches start working.
I have noticed that if I set my plate back from Full Forward with an 8mm allen wrench, the truck pulls like a raped ape at WOT.

When I have the plate set Full Forward, I get HIGH EGTs and ALOT of extra smoke with no power gain.

I remember Weston saying you only needed like 13 or 14mm of rack travel to get in the 500+hp range.
Click to expand...

I'll check mine with that info and see were it is at, I know it's nailed right now, went F/F the backed it off a tad at a time till it screamed. About to send another one to the bench and it will be at 19mm.

Jim
 
So could a guy set his timing around 26 degrees so when it retards it still getting at least 22 degrees to get around this being an issue?
 
I sent out my 847 pump (230hp) and they set it at 19 for me (just at the start of the notch) I just need to measure it to see how they did it. BTW plate FF was over 500cc but was useless at that level IMO because of the amt or retard from 24*
 
so what i seeing is that theres really no way to stop this issue without sending my pump out. so my best bet is just to slid the plate back some and see how she runs.
 
Ok, I know that you have to mess with the plate from full forward and then baby steps back to get the best out of the plate BUT how much would the truck retard with no plate or would there be any advantage to not running a plate?
 
There is a rack stop at 21mm so 4* is the maximum it could retard timing because 21mm is the maximum the rack will travel.


I think the key with 215 pumps is to adjust the fueling back to where available airflow meets fuel output.

For example, if you're running a stock HX35 turbo with airflow for 400hp, there is no sense in letting the rack travel past 13mm. At 13mm you'll get enough fuel to max out HP. At say 15mm rack travel, you will get more fueling but it will be slightly later and timing loss could actually result in a net loss of HP although you're technically injecting more fuel.

Now, for example, you have a large set of twin turbos capable of supporting 700 HP. At 13mm rack travel you will make about 400 HP. As you allow the rack to travel further, you will get more fuel along with retarded timing. However, because you have the airflow to burn all of the extra fuel, you will end up with a net increase in power.

What I wonder and wish someone could test on the dyno is what happens when the static timing is set at 30*? At full rack travel you'd have a ton of fuel and perfect timing at 26*. I wonder if power would be down slightly in the bottom end from too much timing and if you'd hit a "power band" or sudden surge in HP as soon as rack travel started hitting 13mm and started retarding.
 
alright so im running a stock hx 35 for now. what adjustemts are there to stop the rack from traveling so far? from what im hearing i dont need all that extra rack travel.
 
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