Helix 2 vs MaxSpool? Opinions

DIESEL POWER said:
Don, please explain to me in your own words how on Gods green earth, cam profile can lead to a valve seat failure?

i know first hand why they fail and thats so far out in space, i cant believe you of all people would say that,

this is why they fail

when these engines where manufactured, the valve seat it self was machined to an incorrect width and after x-amount of heat(egt) it will float in the head valve seat bore and drop with valve movement, and at the same time of it dropping it will allow the head to cool from the fresh and cooler air rushing past it and it will sieze in the bore (expanstion/contraction) and then the valve will slap the piston and severe problems occur.

because of this cummins now has an updated valve seat #(only after realizing there was a problem)---and guess what it's got a wider demention--for a tighter interference, it's 2-3 thousands bigger, and since the recall or shall i say update, there have been NO problems with updated parts.

now even with the old parts an aftermarket cam will help rid the high exhaust heat and further prevent heat soak better, so i see nothing but a win/win situation here.

now lets here your side!
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DON M please dont side step the question here, i want this question or statement commented on by YOU before this thread gets locked.
 
jkretzer said:
After finally catching up on reading this thread i will comment. I HAVE HAD A REGRIND FAIL!!! it was from a big name company that i will not reveal, I am tickled the way they handled it, it could not have gone smoother given the circumstances. They had no idea it was a problem but took care of everything for all the problems they had. it was first found in one of their trucks and they volunteered to call me and let me know about the situation out of their own good hearts, not many companies would have done that. i now have an extact copy of the regrind i first had, same specs. i do have pics of this cam and the flaking lobes that i will post here during my lunch but right now i need to get back to work. j
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So are you saying your running the same cam from the same company still just one that was defective, kindof like a 53 block or do you have the same grind specs done with a different brand company?

Thanks Brett
 
One cant go down to Cummins and purchase a "recon" cam either. Cummins only sells new cams. Even if you purchase a "recon" engine you get a new cam. The block, cylinder head, rods, etc can all be reconditioned, but cams are never done so. Why? Read on.

Cummins has a step in the lobe on their camshaft. Or a raised area on the lobe. You cant see the step in J's photos because it has been removed during regrinding. As any regrind will exibit. The reason the lobe is stepped is to allow the tappet to slide or rotate when the cam lobe is picking up the tappet. Reducing wear. Having a wide lobe area without the step either slows or completely stops the sliding tappet design.

As I stated earlier, the Cummins B cam has undergone design changes over the years to overcome heavy wear in this area. Cummins developed a wear test just for this reason when the new oil was required for aftertreatment systems being added to the vehicles . Its a 350 hour test. And ISBe specific. A google will tell you all you want to know about the test standards.

The B series is able to rotate or slide the tappet by offsetting the lobe from the centerline of the tappet. The benefits of the offset are hampered at best or stopped altogether when that step is ground off.

The Helix cams have the perfect width to allow tappet rotation. The same as a new stock Cummins cam would have. A regrind could never allow this with much, if any success. Look closely at the tappet and lobe wear in J's photos. This is a classic sign of cast material overheating and pieces actually popping off the lobe. The overheating is a result of limited tappet sliding taking place. Since he reported no overheating and the cam was nearly new when the failure took place, oil film breakdown was not the problem.

Going outside the sliding tappet parameter is a foolish adventure. I think this comes from the run of the mill cam grinder not being familair with a sliding tappet design and Diesel engine design in general.

Adding pressure to the tappet and cam lobe interface by utilizing aggressive lobe designs that pop the valves open quickly and grinding away the sliding tappet design shows, yet again a general lack of knowledge of the Cummins engine, the material selected and the designs used to allow long term durability. :bang
 
DIESEL POWER said:
DON M please dont side step the question here, i want this question or statement commented on by YOU before this thread gets locked.
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Learn to walk, then you can run. Learn the alphabet, then you can spell. Learn basic addition and subtraction, then move on to multiplication.

You need some more base before I could explain it to you.
 
farmboysdiesel said:
Man those pics look familiar to some that I took a while back.
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Yes, same problem with different reasons. J's cam probably failed because the tappet could not slide as needed. Causing an overheat between the tappet and the lobe. He did not have water pouring out of his block for months like you did. Oil breakdown caused your failure. Your oil failed from overheated water fluxed to the oil system by the oil cooler. You killed your cam with abuse, design killed his. Completely out of his control.

I see you have still NOT removed my logo from your website after repeated requests. Why cant you do this? You are not a dealer, but our logo remains at the top of your page, on top of your heros. LOL
 
No oil break down Don - period. I had it tested just in case you didn't back your 'product' up. No heat failure or water contamination. You'll have to do better than that. I promise I'll get around to taking that stupid logo off my page - I want no ties whatsoever to your or your company. Thanks
 
Soup Nazi said:
One cant go down to Cummins and purchase a "recon" cam either. Cummins only sells new cams. Even if you purchase a "recon" engine you get a new cam. The block, cylinder head, rods, etc can all be reconditioned, but cams are never done so. Why? Read on.

Cummins has a step in the lobe on their camshaft. Or a raised area on the lobe. You cant see the step in J's photos because it has been removed during regrinding. As any regrind will exibit. The reason the lobe is stepped is to allow the tappet to slide or rotate when the cam lobe is picking up the tappet. Reducing wear. Having a wide lobe area without the step either slows or completely stops the sliding tappet design.

As I stated earlier, the Cummins B cam has undergone design changes over the years to overcome heavy wear in this area. Cummins developed a wear test just for this reason when the new oil was required for aftertreatment systems being added to the vehicles . Its a 350 hour test. And ISBe specific. A google will tell you all you want to know about the test standards.

The B series is able to rotate or slide the tappet by offsetting the lobe from the centerline of the tappet. The benefits of the offset are hampered at best or stopped altogether when that step is ground off.

The Helix cams have the perfect width to allow tappet rotation. The same as a new stock Cummins cam would have. A regrind could never allow this with much, if any success. Look closely at the tappet and lobe wear in J's photos. This is a classic sign of cast material overheating and pieces actually popping off the lobe. The overheating is a result of limited tappet sliding taking place. Since he reported no overheating and the cam was nearly new when the failure took place, oil film breakdown was not the problem.

Going outside the sliding tappet parameter is a foolish adventure. I think this comes from the run of the mill cam grinder not being familair with a sliding tappet design and Diesel engine design in general.

Adding pressure to the tappet and cam lobe interface by utilizing aggressive lobe designs that pop the valves open quickly and grinding away the sliding tappet design shows, yet again a general lack of knowledge of the Cummins engine, the material selected and the designs used to allow long term durability. :bang
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hmmmmmmmmmmm..... makes one wonder bout roller tappets being utilized
 
farmboysdiesel said:
No oil break down Don - period. I had it tested just in case you didn't back your 'product' up. No heat failure or water contamination. You'll have to do better than that. I promise I'll get around to taking that stupid logo off my page - I want no ties whatsoever to your or your company. Thanks
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I cant believe you posted this. Do you really think that 20 dollar oil test ( that does not even look for thermal breakdown with any effective means ) is going to tell you the cam lobe failed from being defective? LMAO
 
All the expert's and no roller cams or lifters being offered. Well you can't use roller lifters with "nodular iron" cams. So I guess regrinds are out of the question. :doh:
 
I believe roller cams are a totally different ball park. At least they were in the gasser I built.
 
Flat tappet cams like the Cummins will always out accelerate a roller style cam in the lower lift areas of the lobe. With the low RPM, mild lift and duration required on these engines a flat tappet is simply faster/better.

Cheaper too!!!
 
i do have a NEW non-regrind cam in the truck now, it is not as snappy as the old cam but it is supposed to have the similar specs as the reground cam did. i got this cam back when cams were just getting big being put into our trucks and i didnt know any difference and the company didnt either, or at least the longevity of it. they took care of it 100% and i would deal with that company in a heart beat. i do not hold it against them, it was basicly some R&D to some extent and it turned out bad for regrinds. thanks
 
Soup Nazi said:
I cant believe you posted this. Do you really think that 20 dollar oil test ( that does not even look for thermal breakdown with any effective means ) is going to tell you the cam lobe failed from being defective? LMAO
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It was more than $20 and I should have sent you the bill. Regardless - cam failed but you did make it right - Thanks for that.
 
Tiger Rag said:
I agree to some degree of what you are saying about Don being busy but having time to post. In this business it seems that forums are a form of marketing though. If you make a post regarding your cam and how it is manufactured and have it archived for a search engine to pick up on, why not? He is reaching a lot of potential customers now and in the future with that search feature.
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i agree with what youre saying, however i wouldnt want someone to read this and see how "marketing" includes ignoring people with genuine questions, if he is that busy he doesnt need to market anymore.


Don M said:
Learn to walk, then you can run. Learn the alphabet, then you can spell. Learn basic addition and subtraction, then move on to multiplication.

You need some more base before I could explain it to you.
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fine then explain it to me and everyone else that does understand...there are people here that have more knowledge than wade...


also, greg i will give you a call in a few weeks after i get some things squared away
 
gus, don made it right with you regardless of whos fault it really was, why are you still complaining about it? whether there was extortion involved or not, you still got a free cam!
 
Distributor said:
You do know that guys that pull have less than the 1000 cc's you want and have a small charger bigger than your big one???
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Oh maybe thats the problem...:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
 
feelmecummin said:
gus, don made it right with you regardless of whos fault it really was, why are you still complaining about it? whether there was extortion involved or not, you still got a free cam!
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:clap: I agree. Just lay off of it and let it go. He gave you a whole new cam. As with ANYTHING, there are ALWAYS going to be a few failures. No one product or person is perfect. Whether Gus's cam failed because of repeated abuse or the cam itself was just defective, doesnt matter (although after seeing the vids of gus's truck, i have my own opinion of which one it was). He got the cam replaced for free. What else does he want?!?

Ive been runnin the helix 2 for about 4 months. Theres lots of trucks out there running the Helix2 that are makin some major HP. One of the selling points for me was that it was ground from a blank, and not a regrind. I have been nothing but pleased with mine so far.
 
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