Helix 2 vs MaxSpool? Opinions

COMP461 said:
You can run stock lifters on an 8620 billet cam, this has never been a problem, and the only reason to go to a billet is when you want a cam profile that is not possible on a stock core, or when running a large p pump. The stock core will produce the best profile for 90 % of the people out there and the finale dimensions will be with in a few thousands of the same cam ground form a UGL .


I can duplicate the H2 cam on a stock core, and the dimension would be almost the exact same, meaning the same base circle, and nose to bearing dimensions. The big reason I don’t is why. I do not agree with the specs on an F 1 cam and don’t know why this has become such a rant for MINE FURRER .
The really funny part about this is that Don proclaims himself to be the be all to end all, and everyone should accept his word as fact every time. What he has done in reality has been to really showed me and a few others his true lack of knowledge on simple and basic cam technology’s and terminologies.

The people that grind my cores at Bullet cam were blown away by his mistatements and total gibberish spouted in this thread. They grind thousands of cams each month and are the source of my information pertaining to the material and hardness of the Cummins cores. These are the same people that have ground cores for all the projects I have been involved with over the past 20 years. Their cams are in a good number of ProStock programs. The other source is LSM , I have dealt with them for 10 years and they make the 8620 billet cores I use in competitive race programs such as the Predator Truck , and several other sled pullers . I have Bullet grind them
also
What it really comes down to is who do you trust; I have been open and forward, giving specs, taking hours of time to help people achieve the best possible results. Don however will not, and hides behind the curtains and tries not to revel the real fact that he is not the brains behind his venture but an image only.

I make no bones about the fact that my strengths lie in a network of people and the conglomeration of a pool of information. To do this you must have a in-depth understanding of the total picture and how these parts must work together, in harmony. You must also have a vision and direction, and know how to integrate each person’s knowledge in to the total concept.


sorry for the negitive spin to a great thread.
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That leaves yourself wide open to suggestions, believing what a cam grinder tells you. I'm not saying they are wrong, but there is a ton of machinists out there that do good work, that don't have a clue what material they're working with, other than what somebody tells them. You both seem knowledgable, but I'll trust don because I believe he himself has done his homework and not relied on what some cam grinder has told him.:thankyou2:
 
but they still break...i know of one that just let go on a p pumped 24v.


Signature600 said:
Not knockin' it...wish I had a sales pitch like that!

There'd be a WHOLE lot more Orange tractors in Southern Ohio if I did!
Chris
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Big P-pump= billet cam needed or failure is more than likely
8620 heat treated cams are hard and will work with stock tappets, but will wear fairly rapidly, most anything with a billet cam wear is not an issue because it wont ever run even a 1000miles before it is torn down and something else done to it, most steel tappets from other vendors exhibit the same issues, so its a non issue for the most part. If you want it to last you have to spend big$$ on the tappets and cam so everything has the proper surface finish and hardness. Technically anytime you replace a flat tappet cam without replacing resurfacing the lifters its a crap shoot about wear, thats why replacing the lifters IS recommended. Oh and 140lbs on the seat is the best to reduce cam wear.Too tight a valve lash can also be a problem.
 
So you're saying replace the lifters with new ones no matter which cam you use ? Or did I read that wrong ?
 
If you want to decrease the likelyhood of premature cam wear, yes change the lifters too. I am guilty myself of going the easy route and just swapping cams, most of the time in the 5.9 i have gotten away with it, sometimes not. Its not a matter of the cam being the cause in and of its self, but lifters wear and kind of take a seat/mate to a particular lobe wear pattern(yes they all wear to some extent) If the lifter just happens to be a pattern that the cam doesnt happen to like it will wear rapidly due to abrasion. Cummins and all the big name ACTUAL cam manufacturers not vendors tell you to ALWAYS replace the lifter too. There is also a known problem with some engine oils and initial cam breakin being a problem too this has come about due to reformulations in the S-class of oils, most API rated CD-CI oils are still ok.
 
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KTA-Cummins said:
Big P-pump= billet cam needed or failure is more than likely
8620 heat treated cams are hard and will work with stock tappets, but will wear fairly rapidly, most anything with a billet cam wear is not an issue because it wont ever run even a 1000miles before it is torn down and something else done to it, most steel tappets from other vendors exhibit the same issues, so its a non issue for the most part. If you want it to last you have to spend big$$ on the tappets and cam so everything has the proper surface finish and hardness. Technically anytime you replace a flat tappet cam without replacing resurfacing the lifters its a crap shoot about wear, thats why replacing the lifters IS recommended. Oh and 140lbs on the seat is the best to reduce cam wear.Too tight a valve lash can also be a problem.
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GREAT POST! :rockwoot: :Cheer:
 
Why would you call it a salesman pitch if it results in a lower $$ sale by telling me that?
 
They could be making more off of it? I'll bet they have stock cams out the wazoo, so getting a batch of them ground costs roughly the same whether it's 10 or 50...cost/unit goes down!

The notion that a cam is "proven" because it was in an engine, then taken out and reground, and then magically won't break as easy is ludicrous. If they had said that about a new cam they had reground it would be one thing, but a used one??

Chris
 
Rods said:
Agreed, but we still need the approval from Don
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I need no approval from Don~. I learn alot about what works and what doesn't by actually doing it! If you keep doing things wrong until you no longer have to re-do them you must have gotten it right. :bang :hehe:
 
KTA-Cummins said:
I need no approval from Don~. I learn alot about what works and what doesn't by actually doing it! If you keep doing things wrong until you no longer have to re-do them you must have gotten it right. :bang :hehe:
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i guess thats what you call true R and D
 
KTA-Cummins said:
I need no approval from Don~. I learn alot about what works and what doesn't by actually doing it! If you keep doing things wrong until you no longer have to re-do them you must have gotten it right. :bang :hehe:
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LOL No one makes Dzus fasteners for holding in transmissions, do they? I need a set with the number of trips the tranny's made out of the truck while I learn another important lesson about what not to do.
 
In an effort to get this thread back on track... I only use Velcro to hold my cam gear on the snout of the cam. $.02
 
:doh: Aaaaahhhh, so that's how the cam gear stays on! Velcro!! Seriously, though, how big of a p-pump would be considered -uh- big?
 
KTA-Cummins said:
I need no approval from Don~. I learn alot about what works and what doesn't by actually doing it! If you keep doing things wrong until you no longer have to re-do them you must have gotten it right. :bang :hehe:
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((DOH)) Hmmm I figured you just have to spend big bucks the first time and thats it theres no more its done theres nothing out there any better :blahblah1:


LOL
 
PRattenbury said:
:doh: Aaaaahhhh, so that's how the cam gear stays on! Velcro!! Seriously, though, how big of a p-pump would be considered -uh- big?
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um, about as big as yours!:evil
 
I have a F-1 Helix 2 in my "play engine" along with F1 valve springs. With II injectors that were suppose to be 62LPM along with a II Super CP3.4 pump the cam provided enough air to keep the exhaust prettyclear(of course there was mucho smoke on a launch) from idle up to 90psi (when the injectors weren't carboned up and were working). I've never talked to DonM but I've spent some time on the phone with Rip, Bob, Tim, and Olee.

I've talked to Greg Hogue on the phone also.

All are really good to talk to.

If I wanted a custom grind fast....I'd talk to Greg.

If I wanted a well tested and reliable performance cam off the shelf I'd talk to F1.

To make the highest HP and win...you need something different than everyone else.

To make great HP and be around for the long haul you need something proven.

Making a cam for a truck that will go 50 miles in a year or maybe a day is different than making one that will go 1000miles plus a day....day after day.

Alot of people want to be a dragster ....with their grocery getter...COOL.

I've learned that You'd better have a dedicated grocery getter or....you'll starve.

Opinions are like......arseholes everyone's got one...and half of everyone are arseholes. KS
 
greengoat said:
I have a F-1 Helix 2 in my "play engine" along with F1 valve springs. With II injectors that were suppose to be 62LPM along with a II Super CP3.4 pump the cam provided enough air to keep the exhaust prettyclear(of course there was mucho smoke on a launch) from idle up to 90psi (when the injectors weren't carboned up and were working). I've never talked to DonM but I've spent some time on the phone with Rip, Bob, Tim, and Olee.

I've talked to Greg Hogue on the phone also.

All are really good to talk to.

If I wanted a custom grind fast....I'd talk to Greg.

If I wanted a well tested and reliable performance cam off the shelf I'd talk to F1.

To make the highest HP and win...you need something different than everyone else.

To make great HP and be around for the long haul you need something proven.

Making a cam for a truck that will go 50 miles in a year or maybe a day is different than making one that will go 1000miles plus a day....day after day.

Alot of people want to be a dragster ....with their grocery getter...COOL.

I've learned that You'd better have a dedicated grocery getter or....you'll starve.

Opinions are like......arseholes everyone's got one...and half of everyone are arseholes. KS
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agreed, especially the backup vehicle statement...been there, done that
 
We have used a Max Spool cam in our race truck. We had very good service from that first cam. We sold it to someone that is still using it today. He has made very impressive hp and has ran very fast in a C/R truck. Todate we are now running a RayMac Racing engine. This engine was built with a billet cam with a Max Spool grind. The reason we went with billet was the fact that we wanted more spring tension/pressure for more RPM and more Boost Pressure that we were planning to run. This cam has worked out very well and Ray at RayMac Racing did a fantastic job with this engine. We have been running up to 4000 rpm and this thing is sweet. It has and will be fun trying new products and tuning our truck with the latest products we and the industry have made. The First Max Spool camshaft that we had used, looked as good when we removed it, as when we installed it. (Well Almost) Hope this helps. Thanks, Brady
 
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