Helix 2 vs MaxSpool? Opinions

You heard the man soup- no more pc breaks for you!

ándale, ándale, Arriba, arriba LOL
 
Fishin2Deep4U said:
You are making the assumption that all cams are starting out with the same peak lift values. I have no idea when Don gets his cams if they have a greater height as a blank, but I know my test cams for the car are built that way.

So, while you are correct, if you start out with the same peak height, then you must grind the same amount off the base circle to get the same lift. What I am saying is, I am not sure what Don uses for blanks. Maybe he can get materials you cannot. I dunno.
Click to expand...

Ok Don this is getting silly, you can not have the lobe be any higher then the bearing journals. If it did the cam would not slide past the bearings and in to the motor.
Don's cams, my cams , and everyone else’s have the peak of the lobe on the same height as the journals , the material is taken off on the back side .

Fishin2Deep4U said:
I don't think I would compare anything in these motors to a SBC. We tried a custom grind in the Pontiac that had a bit smaller base circle. We ended up cracking 5 of the bores due to side loading and lift. The problem was fixed by increasing the base circle at the same lift and adjusting the top end installed height. No other changes were made to the lift profile.
Click to expand...

There is little to no side loading of the B Cummins lifter, The valve train geometry is something a lot of Pro Stock engines would die to have. The pushrod is straight up and down, unlike a Pontiac ProStock Head, casting 427. And if you have this happen on your last engine, your a little lost. So you are calling the lobe TOP END INSTALLED HEIGHT. If you have the same lobe lift, you have the same base circle.

You need to learn the terminology Don

Fishin2Deep4U said:
If I understand you correctly, grinding the base circle does not affect the thickness of the hardening or possibly gets through it? Let me put it another way. Why do reground cams have a higher lobe failure rate than those that come from new blanks?

Again, not saying anyone is right or wrong. I am just offering my 2 cents based on what I have run into.

Dave
Click to expand...


Who says this, any proof, I have over 50 cams out there, and not one failure.
I know of over 100 reground cams from Buddha Power and people like Brian Block AKA KTAcummins and not one failure. It seems like you would like to spout facts made up facts to fit your needs DON.

The post these quotes came from, are from some one that has listen to the words and phrases of cam design technologies, But obviously doesn’t know how the words, correlate to the facts. I will not even enter in to discussions with this person, which I believe is either Don or Some one acting in his proxy to help him prove his erroneously points.

I have watched over the past year or so as Don and his Posse have viciously attacked in calculated and clear-cut formation anyone that doesn’t pray at the feet of his injection technology’s.

I then listen to people with 25 to 30 years of injection experience, some the leaders in the diesel world at what a total goof this guy is. How his words and phrases don’t even match his very own product.
I don’t know squat about injectors , I don’t need to , I only need to call on people like Brady Williams at Industrial Injections , give them my data , and let them make the corresponding changes to the physical injector. So untill now I have not called Don on his BS ,



Now when It come to camshaft and valve train design, this is a field where I have a little more knowledge base , and where I have a depth of understanding of the attributes of what it takes to physically grind a cam and make it work as expected . I trust the more then 100 years of experience from the people at Bullet cams which grind thousands of cams a month, to include my 10 to 15 cams. They have had a good laugh at the words that Don and his proxy have written and deemed them to be absolute horse crap.

Don has not tried to lay out any proof that his cam performs better , or even the specs , but only a smoke screen that any other cam besides his is any number of fabrication dejoiur . he has tossed out , and been proven to be erroneous. Don has a history of this


Don if your going to blow smoke , learn the words and phrases first
 
COMP461 said:
I don’t know squat about injectors , I don’t need to , I only need to call on people like Brady Williams at Industrial Injections , give them my data , and let them make the corresponding changes to the physical injector. So untill now I have not called Don on his BS
Click to expand...


"Bigotry and intolerance, silenced by argument, endeavors to silence by persecution, in old days by fire and sword, in modern days by the tongue."

-Charles Simmons
 
Oh Comp, your washed up Man. Dave is Dave. I have not spoken to Dave about cams in a year or more. Lets just say Dave is an old drag racer and knows a thing or two 'bout cams

Let have a look at some photos of the Helix, the stock cam, and a Cummins regrind. It will become very clear that a regrind CANNOT keep the nose of the cam from being ground away. This only gets worse if the LSA changes. LSA is the seperation angle between the lobes measured in degrees COMP. Two cam lobes that have a wider seperation on the shaft will have the peak of their noses further apart.

Named below are the three cams: "regrind" "stock005" and "helix004"

We layed a straight edge between the bearing journals and measured the distance between the nose height and the bearing journal. Graphically for this purpose it was easier to show it with feeler gages. The regrind has such a large distance that a set of feeler gages to 25 thousands was not large enough. I ended up stacking a 25 thou and a 13 thou together to cover the distance:badidea:


Look closely at the lobe on the stock005 cam. This is the critical "step" I wrote about earlier in the thread that keeps the lobe width around .715"
This is a parameter in the system to allow their sliding tappet design to function as needed. It is an offset lobe from the tappet centerline to spin the tappet and lower wear rates. During regrinding, the step is removed and the lobe width goes from .715" to .946". This inhibits tappet rotation as designed.
 

Attachments

  • regrind.jpg
    regrind.jpg
    57.6 KB · Views: 90
  • stock005.jpg
    stock005.jpg
    63.6 KB · Views: 84
  • helix004.jpg
    helix004.jpg
    57.8 KB · Views: 79
COMP461 said:
Ok Don this is getting silly, you can not have the lobe be any higher then the bearing journals. If it did the cam would not slide past the bearings and in to the motor.
Don's cams, my cams , and everyone else’s have the peak of the lobe on the same height as the journals , the material is taken off on the back side .

I know of over 100 reground cams from Buddha Power and people like Brian Block AKA KTAcummins and not one failure. It seems like you would like to spout facts made up facts to fit your needs DON.



Now when It come to camshaft and valve train design, this is a field where I have a little more knowledge base , and where I have a depth of understanding of the attributes of what it takes to physically grind a cam and make it work as expected . I trust the more then 100 years of experience from the people at Bullet cams which grind thousands of cams a month, to include my 10 to 15 cams. They have had a good laugh at the words that Don and his proxy have written and deemed them to be absolute horse crap.

LMAO!

COMP, you are wrong, again. Look at the photos of the regrind below. Look at the "step" in the cam lobe from Cummins. This step is always ground away on the base circle and the nose. So, yes you do grind away material on the cam nose. And NO, your regrind does not have the same peak nose height as the helix or the stock cam. Your regrind is over 40 thou out of normal parameters. Probably more in some cases. It is apparent Bullet has little to no experience with a Cummins block or they would understand why the lobe width needs to be .715" and why the cam nose height needs to be as close as possible to the journal height. This is very true in the 2nd gen 12V and 24V engines and important as hell to controlling wear and keeping the geometry correct. Seems like another example of what gasser shops do when they assume the Cummins is just another engine and apply the old school regrind tricks to cams.

Remember that Cummins will sell a recon block, a recon rod, injectors, pumps, etc but they NEVER sell recon camshafts. Ever wonder why? It is because a Cummins cam needs the step and nose height as designed and a regrind cant meet that spec.
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • helix2width.jpg
    helix2width.jpg
    65.4 KB · Views: 78
  • regrindwidth.jpg
    regrindwidth.jpg
    67 KB · Views: 77
  • stockwidth.jpg
    stockwidth.jpg
    69.6 KB · Views: 77
Last edited:
chris you need to quit being a baby and be patient. 2months, psh you're such a momma's boy.... hehehehe when we goin to the track again, and are you goin to jasper?

does any of these cams actually make a difference in hp ot tq??? or is it mainly for lower egt's more boost..... anything i missed that could be pointed out.

and this is my opinion, comp that was a bit of a harsh assumption of who you was quoting wasn't it???? i learned when you assume you only do one thing. make an ass out of u and me. i don't want to get into a heated debate with you over it either or argue about it at all.
 
Chris,

I have a bunch in stock now. I am waiting on bolts, but those will be here Tuesday. Who did ya order from?
 
Yes I went thru john I've had one of his ported heads for about 2 months now and it's killing me not being able to get it on. If you could give him my number and tell him to call me that way you can just drop ship it to me 1-417-335-1950 I can't seem to get ahold of him lately.....

Pack as soon as I get a cam and the head on we'll go racing well we might go friday night cause I got some smarty's in maybe 11's on fuel single cp3?????
 
weeeee. sounds like a good time. block your number when you call john and he will answer.
 
Compy and crew... you keep getting :owned: Stop while you're just a ways behind and not completely out of the race. Jealousy is a very unbecoming personality disorder. Makes ya look desperate... not good :)
 
Last edited:
um well you see there's this one cat that lives close to me that i talk to on occassion. i believe he told me. but i don't have to block mine. i'm gonna be burning up their phone lines come monday if my pump isn't here. and i'f i get ahold of them i'll 3way you.
 
Well I am out of the vendor game but still have a few parts around.... If anyone is still looking for an H2 cam I have 1 new one left! Just pm me.....

Doug
 
How much are the helix 2 cams and what exactly will it do for my rig I am thinking that it will give me a longer duration that will improve flow and lower my boost resulting that I can turn my turboes up higher ?? does that sound right I can't run over 65PSI boost now becouse I only have a Oringed head so I need to try in get this thing to flow more Also any one no how to get more RPMs out of a VP I have the hot rod deal now but it still signs off at about 35-3600 and has anyone run the cometic head gaskets yet????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top