How does the 181/210 compare?

Burner said:
That's just not right. I hope you don't start a landslide. Competition is a good thing but if this keeps up you'll knock the bottom out? That's what's bothersome but not scary. What's scary is all this 'talk' and OPEN data. You get a big company in the mix and the next thing ya know someone will be selling Chinese cams...cheap. How they will hold up, donno? However, I'd guess they would hold up like every other Chinese part for our Cummins.

.......IMHO, you keep the specs out, that means hardness a well and define the test.

That's my .02 for whatever it's worth.
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So you'd rather not know what specs your cam is and what works or doesn't work? i hate all this talk about let the truck do the talking...every truck is going to be different. No matter what. Different!:bang
 
I'm sure the cam name or profile 'cut' will be listed to distinguish between the cams. You're young and this is really a piss'n contest, you just don't know it.

And yes, EVERY truck will be different! However, that's not really the point here, is it?
 
Funny. It doesn't seem to be a big problem in the gasser world when they display all of their specs on their cams. If people would use a little common sense and buy from reputable cam manufacturers then there won't be any problem with chinese knock-off's. I think that is a far fetched thought. Listing a cam's specs on the internet is not a big deal and if another company truly wanted to see the specs on another competitor's cam and then try and copy that all they would have to do is buy that company's cam and then copy it. And there's a better chance of that happening than them getting the specs off the internet and trying to replicate the cam that way. I'm glad the cam guys are starting to throw their cam specs out there. For years Don M (just using him as an example) refused to release the specs on his cam's like they were some sort of top secret design and he charged a ton for his cam. Now that the competition is coming out with their specs and charging almost half of what Don did he's had to lower his prices down and release his specs and now people can make a more informed decision on the cam that they want.
 
BgBlDodge said:
Funny. It doesn't seem to be a big problem in the gasser world when they display all of their specs on their cams. If people would use a little common sense and buy from reputable cam manufacturers then there won't be any problem with chinese knock-off's. I think that is a far fetched thought. Listing a cam's specs on the internet is not a big deal and if another company truly wanted to see the specs on another competitor's cam and then try and copy that all they would have to do is buy that company's cam and then copy it. And there's a better chance of that happening than them getting the specs off the internet and trying to replicate the cam that way. I'm glad the cam guys are starting to throw their cam specs out there. For years Don M (just using him as an example) refused to release the specs on his cam's like they were some sort of top secret design and he charged a ton for his cam. Now that the competition is coming out with their specs and charging almost half of what Don did he's had to lower his prices down and release his specs and now people can make a more informed decision on the cam that they want.
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Don't take this the wrong way Tyler...it's not directed at you, but you said it.


Even with the cam specs, how many people know enough about what the numbers mean, to even make an informed decision? Most still would have to reply on an honest answer from their supplier of choice;)

I know I couldn't tell you what the best cam would be, just from looking at the specs!

Chris
 
BgBlDodge said:
..For years Don M (just using him as an example) refused to release the specs on his cam's like they were some sort of top secret design... .
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Agree with you for most part... except this!
They WERE top secret, in the beginning, and needed to be. You do the tens or hundreds of hours of R&D to develop a new concept... you deserve to not give away your secrets and you deserve to get some money back for your work!
People will buy or not buy at your set price! Where's the problem?
Historically, it was the same with hand held calculators, computers, B-1 turbos, etc.

Now, 5 or 6 yrs later, competition has changed the market.... more choice.... and it's buyer beware. Just the way of things, IMO.

Chris (and you) are right...how many of us know how to pick a cam based on specs? But specs do give other builders an edge!

RJ
 
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You are right in the past, they were secretive. the problem is they were hiding ignorance not amazing profiles. Cams have changed considerably in the past few years, they are much better now, and more understood by the general public. THey are starting to look more alike as well. THis is due to the fact that the cummins engine at lower rpms likes a certain kind of camshaft. There is only so much deviation if they are to work good at low rpm. For high rpm camshafts, it is a totally different ballgame. The consumer needs to be informed, so that they can get what they need. THis is why I try to give out specs.

Zach
 
All questions can be handled by Zach in person at TS in two days.......

Jared
 
I like to read data about the product I am purchasing. Even if I don't understand the data given I can read it over, call the builder, and then have him explain every part that I don't understand.
 
Chooseing a cam for a gasser is something I enjoy. Not really hard when you know everything about your engine, head flow chart, cr, stroke, headers your gonna run, intake, rocker rate, ect.

Since diesels operate differently I'm still learning. However, I'd much rather have the specs then just a damn powerband show to me.
 
RowJ said:
Agree with you for most part... except this!
They WERE top secret, in the beginning, and needed to be. You do the tens or hundreds of hours of R&D to develop a new concept... you deserve to not give away your secrets and you deserve to get some money back for your work!
People will buy or not buy at your set price! Where's the problem?
Historically, it was the same with hand held calculators, computers, B-1 turbos, etc.

Now, 5 or 6 yrs later, competition has changed the market.... more choice.... and it's buyer beware. Just the way of things, IMO.

Chris (and you) are right...how many of us know how to pick a cam based on specs? But specs do give other builders an edge!

RJ
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I don't think giving out the lift and duration of a cam would give away all the secrets of the H2 cam but I understand where he was coming from but my point still holds true. Once others started then he was forced to or decided to or whatever you want to call it. And while people might not understand all of the inner workings of a cam shaft, knowing a few of the specs and reading and talking to builders you can make a more informed decision. At least in my eyes.

Folks my post was made as a general post about the cam building industry. Don was just the first name that popped in my head when I started typing so I used him. I wasn't trying to bash him.
 
I agree! Lets get the data out there.

What are the centerlines of the intake and exhaust lobes?
 
You first Don, when did you change your profile from .260" lift on the intake to .270"? I'm guessing the day I posted these dyno sheets. I asked that one first. Fair is fair. Right.

Don I asked you to feel free to post in my forum if you have data. If you are just starting b.s save that for the open forums.
 
BgBlDodge said:
I don't think giving out the lift and duration of a cam would give away all the secrets of the H2 cam but I understand where he was coming from but my point still holds true. Once others started then he was forced to or decided to or whatever you want to call it. And while people might not understand all of the inner workings of a cam shaft, knowing a few of the specs and reading and talking to builders you can make a more informed decision. At least in my eyes.

Folks my post was made as a general post about the cam building industry. Don was just the first name that popped in my head when I started typing so I used him. I wasn't trying to bash him.
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Don't worry man...I know what your trying to say!

Chris
 
Good. It can be hard to make a general statement online. Generally.
 
The thing that I have found funny is the fact that other vendors are coming into the Hamilton Diesel sub forum and bashing on Zach's product...talk about class acts.

When I get the money and time allows, you'll be getting it Zach. You appear to be a stand up guy and the reviews from your product speaks for itself, also the fact that you throw data out to the masses to help us learn a little bit of what and why things need to be done.
 
There is nothing more to say it's all out there. Fletch, Don be some big boys Post in your own forum. I can't spoon feed you my whole life. Find your own soap box! This ones only got room for me!
 
Here is a before dyno sheet, for a p-pumped 24v that will be installing the 181/210 in the next couple of days. If anybody has any dyno sheets using the 181/210 please post them here.

Zach
 
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