meltdown -- common rail style

[aer212]

So do you know what caused it?

 

[Big Blue24]

162k.



yes. left the line at 4,000, pulled about 3800 down the track.



Never got over 1400 on that pull. That was the hottest it's ever been with this setup. The max i've been able to see on the street is also 1400. I see more boost on the street (a little over 70psi) than I do pulling the sled (a little over 60 psi)



thanks joe, you pretty much said it for me.



um, ok.

You might want to verify that your EGT probe was giving correct readings. It sure seems like it would take a lot more EGT to burn the motor that fast.

Maybe swap the probe into someone else's truck and see if it gives correct readings. If the probe turns out to be good, you're going to have a bunch of scared CR owners running around letting out at 1000*!

 

[JOESHTRDDSL]

EGT probe or gauge could be wrong, always a possability. If the gauge is showing the wrong readings then why do two of the pistons look like new? Not trying to argue just trying to help figure out what went wrong. You would thing 4 pistons melted that bad it would have at least damage the other two in SOME way. I am no expert but I am at a loss. I am starting to think no one is an expert on these CR's

Joe

 

[cbtoyz]

Wow man! I'm really sorry to see that. I agree with checking the pyro probe. Nothing else adds up.

 

[KILLER 'B']

This has been an argument for a long time.. Too rich is bad in a diesel. Too lean is bad in a gasser.. Leaning out a diesel with N2o or H2o is bad. Leaning out a diesel electronically (i.e. de-fueling at high rpm) is naughty... I believe (Overfueled) had the same thing happen to his truck when he went down the 1/4 mile with 5.13's and ran against the governor most of the track...

 

[KILLER 'B']

You might want to verify that your EGT probe was giving correct readings. It sure seems like it would take a lot more EGT to burn the motor that fast.

ask scott vorhees what his pyro is at! LOL Our truck is peggin' the needle at 2000 most of the time!..

 

[fordassassin]

Sorry to hear about the motor J.P.

Let me know if you need some help sometime with getting parts picked up or something.

 

[WUnderwood]

what cylinder had the hole in the valve?

 

[JTaylor]

Look at piston #6 closely, seems to be the beginning result, and piston #1 is the end result. Now which part of the piston would be first to fail if subjected to more of the combustion heat?

Could this be the reason why piston #3 and piston #5 did not succumb most of the carnage (Injection Cycle)?

 

[Joesixpack]

He only saw a max of 1400 egt. The truck sounded the same as it always does. He said he felt a loss of power so he backed out of it. When he lifted the upper rad hose blew off. When he felt the loss of power he checked his water temp and egt and said the egt was 1400 and water temp was normal. None of us had any clue the engine was hurt untill he tryed to start it.

Joe

There was a clue, look at the blow by in the vid, its not too bad during the pull, but right at the end there was WAY more, right around when he lifted.

I sure was hoping it was just a HG (could have caused the blow by too if it punched into a pushrod hole), but sure didn't like the sound.


I can see 1700-1800 like nothing, and can pull about 300 with the water injection. Its sure not hard to tell when it runs out of water.


When I was testing in the winter (-40) It was running super lean, flux 5's on kill and data logged 2000 on the pyro (high as it could read anyways) only for very short time.

 

[kino_fab]

Does the MP8 add some timing aswell? Most carnage I've seen like this was caused from too much timing and/or too much rail pressure, and/or inectors going bad. Not bashing the MP8, but I have seen MP8 stacks cause injectors to go bad. A truck that pulled with us some last year had pretty much the same carnage yours has on the same pistons. He ran a BD Crazy Larry, TST, and Edge Juice, stock injectors, cp3 and turbo. half the injectors we cracked and the extreme timing he had with the electronics stack he had was the source of the problem.

 

[jlibert]

Wow man! I'm really sorry to see that. I agree with checking the pyro probe. Nothing else adds up.

I'll swap out the pyro probe, but I seriously doubt that it'll be inaccurate. I see 800 egt cruising, which is on par with other trucks. I have 200hp injectors which some guys are running on moderately sized singles without any issues. A 64/S480 combo should keep a 200hp injector in the egt range i'm seeing.

Look at piston #6 closely, seems to be the beginning result, and piston #1 is the end result. Now which part of the piston would be first to fail if subjected to more of the combustion heat?

good observation.

what cylinder had the hole in the valve?

#1

There was a clue, look at the blow by in the vid, its not too bad during the pull, but right at the end there was WAY more, right around when he lifted.

When I was testing in the winter (-40) It was running super lean, flux 5's on kill and data logged 2000 on the pyro (high as it could read anyways) only for very short time.

As far as blow by, I think the valve cover I have combined with the extra long hose brings more attention to that. You'd never notice it if it was a stock valve cover and breather system.

You saw higher temps when it was cool outside? please elaborate.........
thanks,

-jp

 

[jlibert]

Does the MP8 add some timing aswell? Most carnage I've seen like this was caused from too much timing and/or too much rail pressure, and/or inectors going bad. Not bashing the MP8, but I have seen MP8 stacks cause injectors to go bad. A truck that pulled with us some last year had pretty much the same carnage yours has on the same pistons. He ran a BD Crazy Larry, TST, and Edge Juice, stock injectors, cp3 and turbo. half the injectors we cracked and the extreme timing he had with the electronics stack he had was the source of the problem.

The old TS ramifiers did pressure and timing. The mp8 is pressure only. In theory, more pressure injects the same amount of fuel in a shorter amount of time, which you can say advances the timing slightly. I'm only running 26k psi in the rail which is only slightly above bosch spec at 23,700psi, and never had any timing rattle at all with the settings listed in the first post.

Edge juice + tst + CL (depending on TST settings) is a timing+timing+timing stack -- we can both see how dangerous this could be. The smarty mp8 stack is probably one of the most common stacks out there.

I'd like to look at the spray pattern on an 04.5-07 piston that has never had electronic mods.

 

[Ph4tty]

SW9, timing 4, rail pressure 1
mp8 80%, 26k max rail pressure
EGT 1400 MAX
Flux 4
64/S480

Plenty of air, mild injector, mild rail pressure, timing dialed back,

Then from Madselectronics:
Smarty S04 and S06
Injection Timing
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for stock injectors
# 3 - for aftermarket Injectors ( less advanced than # 2 )
# 4 - for fuel economy ( more timing advance than level # 2 )

The timing was advanced not dialed back on level 4 =\

 

[Coal Train]

Then from Madselectronics:
Smarty S04 and S06
Injection Timing
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for stock injectors
# 3 - for aftermarket Injectors ( less advanced than # 2 )
# 4 - for fuel economy ( more timing advance than level # 2 )

The timing was advanced not dialed back on level 4 =\

I'd say too much timing. I've only ran mine on 2 & 3, your better off to stay on the conservative side too many of these trucks melt pistons because of added timing.

 

[Big Swole]

Then from Madselectronics:
Smarty S04 and S06
Injection Timing
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for stock injectors
# 3 - for aftermarket Injectors ( less advanced than # 2 )
# 4 - for fuel economy ( more timing advance than level # 2 )

The timing was advanced not dialed back on level 4 =\

I thought my sheet said #4 was less timing than #3 but still is more than stock!!

#2 is supposed to be the most timing, I thought ???

 

[2007 5.9]

Then from Madselectronics:
Smarty S04 and S06
Injection Timing
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for stock injectors
# 3 - for aftermarket Injectors ( less advanced than # 2 )
# 4 - for fuel economy ( more timing advance than level # 2 )

The timing was advanced not dialed back on level 4 =\

That is true if you are running REVO non TNT....here is the timing breakdown for REVO TNT timing...

Injection Timing:
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for aftermarket injectors
# 3 - for Hugh aftermarket Injectors ( less timing advance than # 2 )
# 4 – for use with NOs ( less timing advance than level # 3 )
So JP was using the second to least timing avail with #1 stock timing being the least.

 

[bdp]

Timming 4 on the 4k program is the least amount, different then the standard Revo programming.

I never saw over about 1500 degrees on mine and melted all 6 pistons with ceramic coat. I think we all need steel pistons.....

 

[Big Swole]

That is true if you are running REVO non TNT....here is the timing breakdown for REVO TNT timing...

Injection Timing:
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for aftermarket injectors
# 3 - for Hugh aftermarket Injectors ( less timing advance than # 2 )
# 4 – for use with NOs ( less timing advance than level # 3 )
So JP was using the second to least timing avail with #1 stock timing being the least.

Ditto.....I forgot to add that mine is TNT (R)

 

[JasonCzerak]

Wonder why Cummins went back to a re-entrant piston with the 6.7L. I've been seeing too many of these failures lately, it's unsettling.

Then from Madselectronics:
Smarty S04 and S06
Injection Timing
# 0 - Default
# 1 - Stock
# 2 - for stock injectors
# 3 - for aftermarket Injectors ( less advanced than # 2 )
# 4 - for fuel economy ( more timing advance than level # 2 )

The timing was advanced not dialed back on level 4 =\

Look at the PDF for the TNT software. He's got the TNT/r. #4 is less advanced then 3