meltdown -- common rail style

My truck was making prob around 600 at the most stock injectors so hp was not my problem.... I think these injectors are just ****ty....lol I dont ever here of a vp or p-pump truck doing this.. unless it is a ss, or pro mod truck with to much water or nitrous not.. to much rail pressure or a bad injector..
 
jlibert said:
As far as blow by, I think the valve cover I have combined with the extra long hose brings more attention to that. You'd never notice it if it was a stock valve cover and breather system.

You saw higher temps when it was cool outside? please elaborate.........
thanks,

-jp
Click to expand...



Yeah, in my testing, I found that BY FAR, way more heat was generated from the excess of oxygen from super cold air, than the cooling effect of that air. Even after a hard run, I could stop quick and put my had on the air intake horn and you couldn't hold your hand on it it was so cold.

Looking at yours and Beans runs, were cleaned right up, think of it as a acetylene torch, your running in full oxygen cut mode, and need to either cool with more fuel, or water injection.

What have the C.R's in common? hard up for fuel, and at high RPM's and its :bang
 
:clap: I'd say you have the melt down of the year ! It totally sucks obviously and really sorry that happen to you.

I personally have never ran on timing #4 and I know it's suppose to be the lower timing but, that's the only real difference I see in what I run. My MP-8 is always on 100% ( racing ) You have the twins and I've got a single so I guarantee my EGT's have been higher than anything you're seeing.

Something more than EGT's did that to you. Had you made other runs before that one and maybe you were heat soaked ?

hope it's salvageable !
 
Joesixpack said:
Yeah, in my testing, I found that BY FAR, way more heat was generated from the excess of oxygen from super cold air, than the cooling effect of that air. Even after a hard run, I could stop quick and put my had on the air intake horn and you couldn't hold your hand on it it was so cold.

Looking at yours and Beans runs, were cleaned right up, think of it as a acetylene torch, your running in full oxygen cut mode, and need to either cool with more fuel, or water injection.

What have the C.R's in common? hard up for fuel, and at high RPM's and its :bang
Click to expand...

So what is Banks doing right and when a CR get's "cleaned up" they melt pistons..... Is is a tuning aspect that's not available in the smarty? #4 to much timing? Banks does run a lot of spray and lots of rpm.
 
triton said:
:clap: I'd say you have the melt down of the year ! It totally sucks obviously and really sorry that happen to you.

I personally have never ran on timing #4 and I know it's suppose to be the lower timing but, that's the only real difference I see in what I run. My MP-8 is always on 100% ( racing ) You have the twins and I've got a single so I guarantee my EGT's have been higher than anything you're seeing.

Something more than EGT's did that to you. Had you made other runs before that one and maybe you were heat soaked ?

hope it's salvageable !
Click to expand...

I've been over 1800 many times with the stock charger. I make about 1 60-100+mph run every other week for the past 5 years. when I pulled my head for a gasket. the pistons were perfect. Even with the 64 charger I'm seeing 1600 at 130mph. Granted it's never "clear" out the tail pipe tho.

my EGT's were higher when I did a few runs with timing on 3 or 4. I run timing #2. no mp8 as of recently. on #7 at WOT I can't get much over 24K with the mp8, so I unplugged it.
 
JasonCzerak said:
(don't throw things at me, just asking possibly stupid questions)

Do folks like DonM change that angle slightly tighter when making the holes bigger? Is that even possible? Is suppose it could be if he has his own custom tips made for injectors.

Here's why I ask. When they EDM the tips to make the hole bigger in a nut shell right? So if angle "A" now has a bigger hole the diameter of the fuel/spray is over all wider. Example. Straw vs hose, it's pointed at the same thing and smack it dead in the middle, bit instead of covering your nose, your entire face is splashed....

So, if you don't change the angle down a little into the bowl would not the top part of the spray make it out? perhaps causing this issue and in effect causing a hi-timing effect?

How far fetched am I here?

As far as the timing question, I'm not clear if Marco included stock timing in his comment and where does stock timing fit into the highest to lowest timing? Hence my question.

(2)Aftermarket -> (3)huge after market -> (1)stock -> (4)huge + N2o?
Click to expand...

The way I understood it was that at these high pressures - the bigger the hole, the more concentrated and tighter the stream of fuel. The smaller the hole, the wider the stream of fuel (with everything else held constant). I remember reading this somewhere?
 
JasonCzerak said:
So what is Banks doing right and when a CR get's "cleaned up" they melt pistons..... Is is a tuning aspect that's not available in the smarty? #4 to much timing? Banks does run a lot of spray and lots of rpm.
Click to expand...

They are also melting pistons at an unusual rate in that truck. They have even posted about it.
 
jlibert said:
What turbos are you running?

What elevation are you pulling at.

I'm running a 64/14/71 over S480 at 100'.
Click to expand...

My bad. Didn't knowit was a twin turbo truck. Didn't see the S480 the first time. I thought you were runninga single 64/71/14. Sry for the mixup. As for elevation, I have no Idea. What ever South Central Ky is, lol.
 
In the dyno threads, elevation "shouldn't matter" for a turbo charged application. Well the -100 to 5000 we have here in the states for a "properly tuned" truck. elevation doesn't matter.

Now it matters? Funny if you ask me. :)
 
in my experience most of these pistons that melt are from injector problems not timing i have rebuilt at least 13 of these engines that were not modified in anyway with burnt pistons. we run the timing at above 40 deg in my truck. i know its not a common rail system but its a sigma that has significantly higher pressure than a regular p-pump. i have an 06 here now that #6 looks worse than yours and the truck was bone stock.

i would say residual heat was definitely a problem on that run and i think running lean was the root cause of that. if we run lean its a very bad thing even with water injection we would melt down. just my$.02

ted
 
Smokem said:
Running lean, too much timing, too much pressure, or a failed injector still does not explain why the piston crown fails consistantly. How many melted pistons has anyone seen from an injector failure in the '03-04?
Click to expand...

Not nearly as many as the 04.5 and up engines. Is it piston design, 3 injection events, or ????. What is the big difference? The 04.5 and up are suposed to have better oil sprayers to cool the piston also.

Joe
 
p-pumped said:
i would say residual heat was definitely a problem on that run and i think running lean was the root cause of that. if we run lean its a very bad thing even with water injection we would melt down. just my$.02

ted
Click to expand...

How is running a diesel lean hurting it and causing more heat?
 
you run anything to lean it will hurt it.. theres lean and mean and there lean and melted... to rich it will also hurt it... thats why there is tuning involved.. finding out what the truck likes...
 
i believe that when the injectors fail spraying on top of the piston or at the lip of the bowl at the high pressure there is a period of erosion if you will. if the injector sprays into the radius of the bowl it redirects the flow spreading out the force of injection. if you spray high pressure fluid air what ever at a radius it will redirect the flow with minimal erosion to the surface if you spray onto a flat or a corner there is a lot more damage to be done. just a theory but seems to make sence with what i have seen.

ted
 
kas83 said:
How is running a diesel lean hurting it and causing more heat?
Click to expand...

if you run a 2 stroke engine lean it will burn up. if you run a car engine lean due to adding a turbo it will burn up same thing applies here. combustion temps go way up when you go lean. running these engines on the fat side is always gonna be better than lean.

ted
 
Pilot Injection + Lost of fuel, Pressure, & Heat = Melted CR pistons

Who agree's?

Throw in a Bad injector thats not spraying right and it makes it worse and faster....

Just a thought...
 
JasonCzerak said:
In the dyno threads, elevation "shouldn't matter" for a turbo charged application. Well the -100 to 5000 we have here in the states for a "properly tuned" truck. elevation doesn't matter.

Now it matters? Funny if you ask me. :)
Click to expand...

here in vegas its 115 outside and 3000 feet where i live. I just couldnt spool the silverbullet I had so I went to the 62/71/13 its the start of my twins project. Anyhow I went to sea level with both turbos as singles and I feel that the truck had more seat of the pants power at sea level. so to me thats like atleast 30hp it was kinda like changing the smarty from 3 to 5. That was with the silverbullet. With the smaller turbo at sealevel the truck runs better but not much seat of the pants gain IMHO. I am a firm believer that elevation makes huge differences dependant on the trucks turbo and fueling.
 
tirefrier said:
here in vegas its 115 outside and 3000 feet where i live. I just couldnt spool the silverbullet I had so I went to the 62/71/13 its the start of my twins project. Anyhow I went to sea level with both turbos as singles and I feel that the truck had more seat of the pants power at sea level. so to me thats like atleast 30hp it was kinda like changing the smarty from 3 to 5. That was with the silverbullet. With the smaller turbo at sealevel the truck runs better but not much seat of the pants gain IMHO. I am a firm believer that elevation makes huge differences dependant on the trucks turbo and fueling.
Click to expand...


And in your case, you were no where close to running the silverbullet at the end of it's map. :) heh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top