Pilot Injection!! Can it be turned off??? Anyone know?

Another thing to think about is how smooth these things idle...at least mine with the big nozzles, idle's smoother than it did from stock....maybe part of the H2 cam as well.

BUT this shows pilot injection works. Again, I'm convinced this could be corrected in software.

I pretty sure the injector could be moved a bit....you would want to fool with a head off, and injector without a washer and dial indicator to see whats there.....BUT I don't give it a high % that it will make much difference.
 
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Joesixpack said:
With my engine, after I tweeked some rods, I had this same sound as you in the video's, same thing..boost it a bit and it went away.

Bent rods did this,

lowered compression,
Moved piston away from injector,
Looser quench area (top part of piston more far away from head)

One of these or a combination, resulted in way more noise, simular to what's in the videos.


Is the sound that bad....maybe not, sure is annoying though.
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I have new shot peen rods in my truck so that's not the cause with mine anyway. I also have new billet push rods oversized on the exhaust side.

I'm over it myself. If Swole finds something great and I hope he does but, I've been through it all already and found nothing. I've learned to live with the rattle.
 
wpeschel said:
I agree.. I would be interested in the results... O and BTW you should do like most of the cops here in Houston and hang out at the firestation to catch up on rest.. :shake:
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LOL


Shoot, "Rest"....What the hell is that!!!! lol

Our call volume is far to high to be hangin out in the FireSations.....lol


I'll keep you posted if I do the experiment on Monday!!
 
triton said:
You also have to remember... you're dealing with prominate guys in the industry who know 12V inside and out. Our truck are quite a bit different.
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Well, the other gentlemen says he's done it....more than once!

I'll try and get more info from him before I do it.......


BUT TY, You don't think those crossover tubes can flex .040????? And still seal up???
 
Joesixpack said:
Another thing to think about is how smooth these things idle...at least mine with the big nozzles, idle's smoother than it did from stock....maybe part of the H2 cam as well.

BUT this shows pilot injection works. Again, I'm convinced this could be corrected in software.

I pretty sure the injector could be moved a bit....you would want to fool with a head off, and injector without a washer and dial indicator to see whats there.....BUT I don't give it a high % that it will make much difference.
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Idle is pretty dang smooth with these 3.3's

I would think someday the software could correct this rattle too!!

I'm kinda like you...I'm not holding my breath on what the thinner washer will do for it...maybe not much.....IF NOT, well then I'll go back to stock and call it even!!!

I'm still thinking on it a bit!!! We'll see!!
 
I'll throw another rattling combo in the mix. I have a 05 CR in my Ford. 90hp DDP Injectors, Hamilton Cam, pushrods and springs, Stock CR headgasket, Stock Pistons, Smarty TNT/R, 62/13 over S475, stock CP3

Same rattle in low boost situations. Goes away with 10 psi or so
 
Squatch said:
I'll throw another rattling combo in the mix. I have a 05 CR in my Ford. 90hp DDP Injectors, Hamilton Cam, pushrods and springs, Stock CR headgasket, Stock Pistons, Smarty TNT/R, 62/13 over S475, stock CP3

Same rattle in low boost situations. Goes away with 10 psi or so
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Hmmm!!

Good to know!! So you just have studs and a MLS.....


Well, one commone thing I see is that most everyone has a Smarty...Not saying that it's to blame or that anything is amiss there either...just saying that seems to be one common denominator...

Can't wait til Monday to try the other tunner that Jeff played with and said it made it quite a bit quieter.....I'm not expecting as much power with it, just looking for test on the noise level!!

Smarty all the way for all out Power!!! :rockwoot:
 
Ty if you get a chance you should give Reb a call . he may be able to help you out on your rattle problem.
 
thanks man... I will. I'd like to hear what Brown'shave found.

Swole... no, the tubes won't flex. The material is very soft and it will deform. If you look at the end of the tube, it's beveled. Then look at the hole in the injector. the bevel on the tube is a match for the hole in the injector. Every time you install a tube and torque it, it gets a little more deformed. It's the reason Cummins recommends replacing the washers and tubes with every injector pull.

Sure, it might work using a different washer but, I guarantee you won't be lining up the tube the way it should be and asking for it to leak. You'll be deforming it in a shape that isn't going to seal in the injector. I'm not saying it can't be done... just something I personally wouldn't do

Besides, that's only going to affect timing and IMO, will not get rid of the rattle
 
Just throwing this out there,
I can relate the rattle to the ECM taking a few seconds to decide what to do.
The 3rd gen doesn't have the snap of the 12 valve & it seems I hear the rattle when I should be feeling the snap.
Maybe because the injection event is not mech. & fixed . The ECM is trying to determine how much & when to inject.
I miss my 12 valve.
 
inline6power said:
Ty if you get a chance you should give Reb a call . he may be able to help you out on your rattle problem.
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Well Dang!!!!

It's my thread and your telling TY to call Reb!!! What have I done to you man!!! LOL

Show me some love too!! Yeah, Ty's had it longer but now the poe poe's got too!!!! :hehe:


j/k


Ty, let me know what you hear!! Thanks!!
 
Big Swole said:
Well Dang!!!!

It's my thread and your telling TY to call Reb!!! What have I done to you man!!! LOL

Show me some love too!! Yeah, Ty's had it longer but now the poe poe's got too!!!! :hehe:


j/k


Ty, let me know what you hear!! Thanks!!
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ha ha you got me:doh: i started readin on page 2 and saw tys response first so i figured it was his thread. i apologize lol, well Swole you should call Browns lol.
 
triton said:
thanks man... I will. I'd like to hear what Brown'shave found.

Swole... no, the tubes won't flex. The material is very soft and it will deform. If you look at the end of the tube, it's beveled. Then look at the hole in the injector. the bevel on the tube is a match for the hole in the injector. Every time you install a tube and torque it, it gets a little more deformed. It's the reason Cummins recommends replacing the washers and tubes with every injector pull.

Sure, it might work using a different washer but, I guarantee you won't be lining up the tube the way it should be and asking for it to leak. You'll be deforming it in a shape that isn't going to seal in the injector. I'm not saying it can't be done... just something I personally wouldn't do

Besides, that's only going to affect timing and IMO, will not get rid of the rattle
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Actually, I was just out in the shop, and infact you can take the washer right out, and the tube still mates with the injector just fine.

Of course you need a washer for the seal, but I see no reason why it won't work with the thinner washer, its a ball socket that has some "range" of alignment.

Your not bending the tube, very slightly changing the angle it meets the injector, that all.

Ideally a new tube would be best for the seal....I'd eyeball the old ones and if they pass that test, give them a go.

Go for it......take one for the team......LOL


Will it change anything.......only one way to find out.

Change one thing at a time though....either get used to the new tune and rattle, or load the smarty back up and get a good feel before you do the work, or you won't know if it changed anything or not.
 
I know I've been sounding like a nay sayer so you're welcome to call them Dave. I don't think there is a fix and if there is.... it's gonna cause loss of power. Also, if there is a fix... IMO, it's gonna be through electronic. There will still be rattle though just maybe not as bad.

I'm sure Reb and crew know what they're doing but, this is a very common problem that many have. I'd think the answer would have been put out there by now if they had one. I'm curious as to why inline says to call them ?

Since this is your show now, you can make the call... let me know what they tell you :-)
 
triton said:
[*]I've talked to Lloyd Mills, Tim Barber, Jeff Garmon, Dan Scheid, Bo Layne, Kent Crowder, Dave @ Floor it, Dave @ TST, Bob Wagner on many occasions, attempted to talk to Don M, Brady and his son @ II ( forget his name ), Shane @ Wicked, Todd @ T&C and probably several more that I can't think of. Everyone has theories but, I don't think enough is known about the CR to make a exact call.
[/LIST]
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only reason i say call Reb is because he is not in the list above and he is pretty snazzy with the CR stuff. may be able to help with something that hasnt been tried yet or mabey not. just my .2
 
how are you seeing it mate ? it's all inside the head.

Again, Swole, I know you're gonna do what you will anyway but, heres the way I look at it.

We're talking about up to 26,000psi +/- going through those tubes. At that psi, the slightest imperfect seal isn't gonna hold.... long anyway. If it were to leak.... you'll not know it as it's will be leaking down in the head. That in turn could cause a misfire and melted piston ! You also have to think about the O-ring. Is it still in the correct position to seal with/without the washer ?

Like I said... all you're going to do is mess with the timing anyway by changing the washer. I had my head off and measure the protrusion of the injector tip and it's exactly where it should be and yet.... I still rattle.
 
Joesixpack said:
Actually, I was just out in the shop, and infact you can take the washer right out, and the tube still mates with the injector just fine.

Of course you need a washer for the seal, but I see no reason why it won't work with the thinner washer, its a ball socket that has some "range" of alignment.

Your not bending the tube, very slightly changing the angle it meets the injector, that all.

Ideally a new tube would be best for the seal....I'd eyeball the old ones and if they pass that test, give them a go.

Go for it......take one for the team......LOL


Will it change anything.......only one way to find out.

Change one thing at a time though....either get used to the new tune and rattle, or load the smarty back up and get a good feel before you do the work, or you won't know if it changed anything or not.
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Wow!! That's so Sweet , it's makin my teeth hurt!!!!! LOL

Go lookin out man!!!

I think I might just try it !!!!!!

I will try the new tune just like you said and get a good beed on how it sounds......Then Load the Smarty back up and do the same!!!!!

Then change the washers and See if the Smarty is less then....Also the new tune!!!

Dang!!! Now I can't wait!!!!!!!
 
inline6power said:
only reason i say call Reb is because he is not in the list above and he is pretty snazzy with the CR stuff. may be able to help with something that hasnt been tried yet or mabey not. just my .2
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I did think of talking to him but, I know he works with or at least is aware of the goings on of all those other guys. For that reason I figure if none of the others knew anything.... he probably wouldn't either.

I'll let Swole give him a call since this new venture is his show. I'm not as adamant about fixing the issue as he is :-)
 
triton said:
how are you seeing it mate ? it's all inside the head.

Again, Swole, I know you're gonna do what you will anyway but, hears the way I look at it.

We're talking about up to 26,000psi +/- going through those tubes. At that psi, the slightest imperfect seal isn't gonna hold.... long anyway. If it were to leak.... you'll not know it as it's will be leaking down in the head. That in turn could cause a misfire and melted piston ! You also have to think about the O-ring. Is it still in the correct position to seal with/without the washer ?

Like I said... all you're going to do is mess with the timing anyway by changing the washer. I had my head off and measure the protrusion of the injector tip and it's exactly where it should be and yet.... I still rattle.
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Well, I'll consult the Big man about it first and I'll be sure to pay VERY close attention to how the truck acts with them in there....

You may be right and it may not be worth the risk!!! But if it's only a short term test and I can give these folks (as well as myself and You) some insight on the results of doing this...Well, I love to help out!!!

We'll see!!!!
 
inline6power said:
ha ha you got me:doh: i started readin on page 2 and saw tys response first so i figured it was his thread. i apologize lol, well Swole you should call Browns lol.
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=) Hey, it's All Good!! I was just Ribbin ya a bit!!! Had I not checked, I'd have thought it was TY thread too!!!!

He's made QUITE a name for himself with this RATTLE!!!! LOL LOL

ZIP-TY "The Rattle Man!!" lol


I don't know how to contact Browns...Any help on that would be pre-she-tated!!

I'll be happy to call'm since TY seems to have "PASSED THE TORCH" to me as the next Runner!!!!! :hehe:


There may NEVER be a fix for this but I'd just like to say I at least tried!! I gotta keep up with TY!!!! Well, that'll probably never happen!! He's actually gone WAY further than I would have!! lol

Good Lookin out there TY!!!!!:Cheer:
 
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