Pro Street - SFI rule committee

I didn't have a 25.5 spec available to me so SFI shipped me one. Can anyone recommend a desert racing spec that could give insight?

SCORE and BITD both use similar rules regarding cages and such but the BITD puts their rulebook on line so that is the easiest to access.

Here is a link to it: http://www.bitd.com/images/stories/pdfs/2015_CTRuleBook.pdf


And here is the excerpt from the Rollcage section:

VEHICLE SAFETY EQUIPMENT
SCR34: ROLLCAGES
Best In The Desert Racing Association believes that it is each competitor’s responsibility to
present a safe vehicle for pre-race tech inspection. You must maintain your safety equipment
including the roll cage integrity. No changes to the recommended minimum construction
specification with respect to diameter or wall thickness are anticipated at this time. As in the past,
Best In The Desert Racing Association reserves the right to not allow any safety cage design that,
in the view of the tech inspector, is not fit for competition. You, as the competitor, are ultimately
responsible for your own vehicle’s safety features with respect to the design, quality of execution,
maintenance and repair of the roll cage structure.
All vehicles in competition are recommended to be equipped with a rollcage based on seamless
mild steel/4130 chrome molly steel tubing. Minimum design and tubing size for rollcage structure
is in accordance with Table 2.
Table 2. Minimum Tubing Dimension
Vehicle Weight
Under 2000 lbs. 1.5" x 0.95"
2001 to 2500 lbs. 1.5" x .120"
2501 to 3000 lbs. 1.75" x .095"
3001 to 4000 lbs 1.75" x .120"
4001 pounds and over 2.0” x .120”
Note: See manufacturer’s’ reference charts for alloy steel
tubing equivalent strengths. No aluminum or other
non-ferrous materials are permitted.
Definitions and General Information
28
MATERIAL
Rollcage construction material may be crew, dom, whr, wcr mild carbon steel or 4130 chromoly.
4130 chromoly is highly recommended for all rollcage construction. Stress relieve all welded
intersections by flame annealing. All welds must be of high quality and craftsmanship with good
penetration and with no undercutting of parent material. Oxy-acetylene brazing on rollcage is
strictly forbidden.
ROLLCAGE DESIGN
All rollcages must be designed and constructed with one front vertical hoop, one rear vertical
hoop, two interconnecting top bars, two rear down braces, one diagonal brace and all necessary
gussets. The two top interconnecting bars must be placed as far to the outside of the top part of
the front and rear hoops as possible. Rear down braces and diagonal brace must angle a minimum
of 30 degrees from vertical. At the bottom of the diagonal brace there must be a cross member of
the same tubing material and dimensions as the hoop. All rollcage components (hoops, braces,
gussets, etc.) must have a minimum of 3-inch clearance from the component to the vehicle
occupant’s helmets when occupants are seated in their normal riding positions. All portions of the
roll bar or bracing that might come into contact with the vehicle occupant’s helmets must be
padded. All portions of the roll bar or bracing that might come into contact with the vehicle
occupant’s helmets must be padded.
Rollcages must be securely mounted to the frame or body. All intersecting points must be
gusseted and braced. Cab or body mounted rollcages must be bolted through the body structure
and be attached by use of a minimum two 0.1875-inch thick doubler plates (one on each side of
body structure). Bolts and nuts must be at least 0.375-inch-diameter s.a.e. Grade 8 or equivalent
aircraft quality. Welding of cab or body mounted rollcages to body structure is strictly prohibited.
Rollcage terminal ends must be attached to a frame or body member that will support maximum
impact and not shear or allow more than 1.5 inches of movement in the cage terminal end.
All vehicles including those with stock steel doors must have at least one side bar on each side of
vehicle that will protect occupants from side impact. The side bars must be of the same tubing
material and dimensions as the rest of the rollcage. The side bars must be as close to parallel to
the ground as possible, be located to provide maximum protection to the occupants, and be
securely welded to the front and rear hoops. The location of the sidebars must not cause difficulty
in entering or exiting the vehicle.
Gussets constructed of 0.125-inch x 3-inch x 3-inch flat-plate or split, formed and welded cornertubing,
or tubing-gussets made of the same material and thickness as the rollcage may be used.
Gussets must be installed at all major intersections, including diagonal and rear down braces,
where single weld fractures can affect occupants’ safety.
In the stock classes (8100) on vehicles with rear leaf spring suspension you may add a plate to the
front leaf spring outboard mounted hanger if a main roll cage mount is terminated at that point.
The plate may only be place in the “V” of the hanger and be welded in place to the hanger only.
The plate itself may not attach directly to the frame of the vehicle except for the roll cage
attachment bolt that passes through the plate, the roll cage terminal end and the frame. The plate
may only be large enough to allow for a good brace for the roll cage mount. Plate design and
installation must meet with Best In The Desert Racing Association approval. The rear leaf spring
hanger of the rear leaf spring may have a kicker bar attached to the flat horizontal portion of the
hanger and extend to the main rollcage down brace. The main rollcage cannot directly mount to
the rear hanger. The design of kicker bar must be such that you can unbolt it from the hanger.
Kicker design must meet with Best In The Desert Racing Association approval.
In the stock classes (8100) you may attach a main roll cage mount to the top of the front spring
bucket. Design and installation must meet with Best In The Desert Racing Association approval.
 
From the description that SCORE and BITD explain, they will NOT PASS any SFI Spec cage. A 1 1/2 cage won't make it at all. And is 095 moly or mild steel? If it's moly then we are good. Nothing says you can't go larger but the minimum wall thickness stays the same. Example you can have 1 3/4 in place of 1 5/8 but the minimum wall thickness will still be 118 MS or 083 CM.
 
Did anyone that submitted there contact information actually get a phone call from SFI? I did not.
 
In desert racing 1.5 is as small as you can go but you have to be under 2500 lbs to use the small stuff either 1.5 x 0.095 at less than 2000 lbs or 1.5 x 0.120 at 2001 to 2500 lbs. Cages can be mild or CM.

0.083 is never legal in SCORE/BITD for the main structure of car/truck cages at any weight. They require at least 0.095 or 0.120 depending on the tube diameter and weight. They also strongly recommend CM but you can use other steels. They are also pretty rigid on the gussetting that is used.

Their tube size requirements seem to be better suited for our heavy trucks that what I have seen of NHRA standards based on speed rather than weight that were based on 2500-3000 Camaros and Mustangs...

Also keep in mind that A LOT of our diesel drag trucks go quite a bit faster than top speeds of most Desert Race trucks. The top trucks in the desert generally are around 120-130 MPH on long wide open sections like dry lake beds. Some claim more speed but it is not that typical.

With a 4000-6000 pound truck going fast I would suggest 1.75 x 0.120 as a minimum with a recommendation of 2.0 x 0.120. I would not want to be upside down or into a wall or pole with something that has 0.049, 0.065 or 0.083 tubing for the main structure.
 
In desert racing 1.5 is as small as you can go but you have to be under 2500 lbs to use the small stuff either 1.5 x 0.095 at less than 2000 lbs or 1.5 x 0.120 at 2001 to 2500 lbs. Cages can be mild or CM.

0.083 is never legal in SCORE/BITD for the main structure of car/truck cages at any weight. They require at least 0.095 or 0.120 depending on the tube diameter and weight. They also strongly recommend CM but you can use other steels. They are also pretty rigid on the gussetting that is used.

Their tube size requirements seem to be better suited for our heavy trucks that what I have seen of NHRA standards based on speed rather than weight that were based on 2500-3000 Camaros and Mustangs...

Also keep in mind that A LOT of our diesel drag trucks go quite a bit faster than top speeds of most Desert Race trucks. The top trucks in the desert generally are around 120-130 MPH on long wide open sections like dry lake beds. Some claim more speed but it is not that typical.

With a 4000-6000 pound truck going fast I would suggest 1.75 x 0.120 as a minimum with a recommendation of 2.0 x 0.120. I would not want to be upside down or into a wall or pole with something that has 0.049, 0.065 or 0.083 tubing for the main structure.


Are you a chassis builder?
 
I suggest nhrda checks weight and matches them to the weight limits of the chassis sfi spec before a lawsuit gets filed. Since its being discussed. It is a saftey issue some have gotten away with in other classes...
 
Are you a chassis builder?

Nope, that's why I said I would not want to be in a wreck in a truck built with thin wall tubing.

I personally would rather a chassis be 50-100 lbs heavier and made from larger tubing than save that little bit of weight and hope it holds up in a wreck because some outdated chart says X.XXX tubing is safe for running over XX-seconds in the quarter mile without weight or speed advisories.

Remember this discussion started because we have diesel trucks running quicker and faster than the gasser guys that made the rules ever thought was possible.

I honestly worry that someone will get seriously hurt in a truck that meets NHRA specs. I hope it NEVER happens as I would never want anyone to get hurt in a race vehicle of any kind!!! I want EVERY racer to make it home to his family after a wreck, and I think with our heavy diesel trucks running as quick and as fast as they do that tube diameters and thicknesses should be heavier to support the extra weight in the event of an accident.

We can't cheat physics just because a cage passes tech for a spec that was not written with heavy diesel trucks in mind does not mean it is "safe". I personally would rather err on the side of caution!

I feel the same about 1-piece vs 2-piece driver suits and the use of Head and Neck restraints. Many drivers when seated with a 2-piece suit end up with a gap on their lower back that leaves exposed skin or skin protected by a t-shirt. Wearing a 1-piece suit eliminates that possibility.

$.02
 
Nope, that's why I said I would not want to be in a wreck in a truck built with thin wall tubing.

I personally would rather a chassis be 50-100 lbs heavier and made from larger tubing than save that little bit of weight and hope it holds up in a wreck because some outdated chart says X.XXX tubing is safe for running over XX-seconds in the quarter mile without weight or speed advisories.

Remember this discussion started because we have diesel trucks running quicker and faster than the gasser guys that made the rules ever thought was possible.

I honestly worry that someone will get seriously hurt in a truck that meets NHRA specs. I hope it NEVER happens as I would never want anyone to get hurt in a race vehicle of any kind!!! I want EVERY racer to make it home to his family after a wreck, and I think with our heavy diesel trucks running as quick and as fast as they do that tube diameters and thicknesses should be heavier to support the extra weight in the event of an accident.

We can't cheat physics just because a cage passes tech for a spec that was not written with heavy diesel trucks in mind does not mean it is "safe". I personally would rather err on the side of caution!

I feel the same about 1-piece vs 2-piece driver suits and the use of Head and Neck restraints. Many drivers when seated with a 2-piece suit end up with a gap on their lower back that leaves exposed skin or skin protected by a t-shirt. Wearing a 1-piece suit eliminates that possibility.

$.02


Having people tear out existing cages to meet some new spec is bs. If a traditional cage is good to 8.50, adding a drivers cage should be good enough for 7.50-8.0.

Drag racing is inherently dangerous. We all know it. Just like playing football, boxing, mma, etc. We all know and accept this. If i get killed in a nhra approved cage, it's not nhra's fault. I could have overbuilt it, or not raced all together.

We aren't trying to save the world here, just add a feasible safety upgrade for those on the edge of thier certs.
 
Current 8.50 cages were never designed for 6-8000lbs trucks going 150mph plus. Yet, technically they are legal. You can always build another racecar if you experience a high speed crash and walk away. Kinda hard when the cab collapses on the driver.
 
Some will change there tune once someone In This class gets hurt. I hope that dosent have to happen to make it clear there is a need to re-adjust the chassis cert.

My chassis was certed for 6.00 and 2800lbs. I only hit the wall at 130 mph and totaled it. Hit hard enoght to move the concret barrier. did it's job....I walked away with just strap burn and a concussion.
 
It's better to overbuild then to under build and not walk away. Those specs Chris posted above r strictly enforced out there. Even the UTV's the same way. Several have been told not to race from thin wall tubing. After seeing the 3 car pileup at high speeds in the Mint 400 where they were flown out to emergency surgery...... Yea I'd overbuild it
 
Somebody check my numbers, but i'm coming up with a 250mph, 2500# car having roughly 15% more energy in an impact than a 150mph/6000# truck.
 
Somebody check my numbers, but i'm coming up with a 250mph, 2500# car having roughly 15% more energy in an impact than a 150mph/6000# truck.

Keep your math and science out of this, we demand solid 3" round stock for the cage. lol
 
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