Replacing the 6.4 with a 24v Cummins???

[KB3MMX]

If you've never driven a tuned 6.4, give it a shot first.

^^^^^Heck yeah !!




Replacing a 6.4 with any Cummins would be out of pure stupidity, given their potential with simple mods.

I think it is funny as to how you guys sit there and begrudge a 6.4, you spill "facts" that have no basis, just because you dont like fords or whatever. The true facts are this, with a 6.4 you can have 600 hp at the wheels for $1200. You can not do that with a dodge or a chevy period. With a ford the 5r110 will handle 600 hp all day long, every day. Neither a 48re or a Allison will handle 500 hp stock. The 6.4 is way way quieter than either the duramax or cummins. I get a real world 25 MPG (imperial gallon) hand calculated, and I can run low 13's without banging on it (no boosted launch) If I was to bang on it I know that I could run a high 12. Tell me what mods you would have to do with a dodge or a chevy and run 12's, certainly more than 1200 bucks.

As for repairs, every one out there breaks down, I dont care what luck you have had with your particular ride, every brand has those similar stories, I know guys that have POS 6.0's with over 500k on them. And we all know that the 6.0 was not a good engine in a ford.

I have a unique posistion, as that I have owned all brands, and have experience modding all of them.

I can say this with all certainty, this ford is the best truck I have ever owned. The fit and finish is the best, the ride quality is amazing ( I admit not as good as the chev, but I also have not had to do a wheel alignment on it yet either, I was on 2 with the chev by this mileage) but heads and tails above the dodge.

In summary, I think it would be a monumental waste of money to change out a 6.4 and put in any other engine. It would cost 12 grand minimum to do the swap, and you wouldnt have the same power, smoothness and as always when you do mods like that there is going to be lots of little bugs to work out.

 

[twisted powerst]

the 5.9 cummins has beeen out 4 times longer then the 6.4 has been out thats y there is alot more cummins making high horsepower and the 6.4 have only been out 4 years and look at rudys truck they r making crazy numbers in a few more years as they make better parts for them they will have the junk cummins beat no dought and as fare as p pumped 24 values my brother has one builted by east coast diesel and i walk him any time any place with my 6.4 and he has alot more work done to his then i have done to mine y DOWN GRADE TO A CUMMINS i dont get

 

[jkidd_39]

the 5.9 cummins has beeen out 4 times longer then the 6.4 has been out thats y there is alot more cummins making high horsepower and the 6.4 have only been out 4 years and look at rudys truck they r making crazy numbers in a few more years as they make better parts for them they will have the junk cummins beat no dought and as fare as p pumped 24 values my brother has one builted by east coast diesel and i walk him any time any place with my 6.4 and he has alot more work done to his then i have done to mine y DOWN GRADE TO A CUMMINS i dont get

I don't think downgrade is the proper term. Show me how many 700hp 6.4 DDs are out there. Very rare and they have boatloads off money to get there.

There are two major problems with the 6.4 platform, terrible head design and aftermarket support.

Until someone really dives into the head and allows this engine to really breathe you will be bottlenecked.

And name a few big cummins shops. Now name some ford performance shops. Mpd, elite, Rudy's. Done!!

People pushing the platform is the only thing that will allow big power in a 6.4.

Plus the 6.4 engines have trouble lasting past 100k

 

[AHall]

the 5.9 cummins has beeen out 4 times longer then the 6.4 has been out thats y there is alot more cummins making high horsepower and the 6.4 have only been out 4 years and look at rudys truck they r making crazy numbers in a few more years as they make better parts for them they will have the junk cummins beat no dought and as fare as p pumped 24 values my brother has one builted by east coast diesel and i walk him any time any place with my 6.4 and he has alot more work done to his then i have done to mine y DOWN GRADE TO A CUMMINS i dont get

What a fool.

 

[SCHOOL BUS]

the 5.9 cummins has beeen out 4 times longer then the 6.4 has been out thats y there is alot more cummins making high horsepower and the 6.4 have only been out 4 years and look at rudys truck they r making crazy numbers in a few more years as they make better parts for them they will have the junk cummins beat no dought and as fare as p pumped 24 values my brother has one builted by east coast diesel and i walk him any time any place with my 6.4 and he has alot more work done to his then i have done to mine y DOWN GRADE TO A CUMMINS i dont get

Will they builted me one toos?

 

[me2]

I have an 08 F350 with a 6.4. I put 18,000 miles on it since the beginning of November.

My truck is getting a twin turbo Cummins 6.7 with EFI Live and a few other tweaks.

I could care less about racing. I've never raced in my life. And if I did want to race, it wouldn't be with an 8,000 pound truck.

I own a diesel truck for pulling trailers. What these trucks and diesel engines were designed to do.

Go behind any Ford dealership and you are going to see this.

Which results in this.

My truck just spent the week at the dealer.

They found shavings from the high pressure fuel pump in the fuel rail.

It needed a complete new fuel system. Rails, lines, cooler, injectors and high pressure pump. It takes 12 shop hours to pull the cab to pull the HPFP to inspect it. Total cost of the fix ? Over $10K.

Luckily warranty covered it, this time.

Last month it was in the shop for the EGR system. That bill would have been $1500, but it too was covered under warranty.

I know, it should have been deleted. If it was, I would be picking up the tab for the fuel system, not Ford.

Next month the warranty will expire on my 6.4. I'll be swapping the Cummins in shortly.

You can have your glorious 6.4.

And my 6.4 too.

GOOD RIDDANCE ! What a POS !

 

[me2]

Some are having piston issues due to the extreme backpressure the factory compounds create.

They have piston issues because they have a chitty fuel system. The HPFPs are weak and blow up, taking out injectors with it. Only people don't notice only a single injector leaking and they burn the piston.

Turbo backpressure is about 1/30th of combustion pressure. It has NOTHING to do with piston issues. If exhaust backpressure was an issue then everyone running an exhaust brake would have problems.

 

[jkidd_39]

I have an 08 F350 with a 6.4. I put 18,000 miles on it since the beginning of November.

My truck is getting a twin turbo Cummins 6.7 with EFI Live and a few other tweaks.

I could care less about racing. I've never raced in my life. And if I did want to race, it wouldn't be with an 8,000 pound truck.

I own a diesel truck for pulling trailers. What these trucks and diesel engines were designed to do.

Go behind any Ford dealership and you are going to see this.

Which results in this.

My truck just spent the week at the dealer.

They found shavings from the high pressure fuel pump in the fuel rail.

It needed a complete new fuel system. Rails, lines, cooler, injectors and high pressure pump. It takes 12 shop hours to pull the cab to pull the HPFP to inspect it. Total cost of the fix ? Over $10K.

Luckily warranty covered it, this time.

Last month it was in the shop for the EGR system. That bill would have been $1500, but it too was covered under warranty.

I know, it should have been deleted. If it was, I would be picking up the tab for the fuel system, not Ford.

Next month the warranty will expire on my 6.4. I'll be swapping the Cummins in shortly.

You can have your glorious 6.4.

And my 6.4 too.

GOOD RIDDANCE ! What a POS !

12 hrs to pop the cab and inspect the injection pump is way too much. 6 shop hours is more like it.

Sounds like an f u deal. If the pump goes they should replace all 8 injectors.

 

[me2]

It would cost 12 grand minimum to do the swap

Have you actually ever done a swap ?

and you wouldnt have the same power, smoothness

6.4s are smooth because the ignition is so far retarded they run like a gasser. And as soon as you advance them the cylinder pressure increases and they implode.

There is no way to fix how difficult it is to work on a 6.4. For starters you need a shop with a hoist to lift the cab. Oh sure, if you are a contortionist with lots of time you can work on it without lifting the cab, but who the hell wants to spend their life doing that ?

and as always when you do mods like that there is going to be lots of little bugs to work out.

The thing is that hundreds, maybe thousands of people are swapping Cummins engines into Fords and thus there is a huge community of knowledge and a strong aftermarket too. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do a good swap these days.

 

[me2]

12 hrs to pop the cab and inspect the injection pump is way too much. 6 shop hours is more like it.

And you've done it in 6 hours ? Go check the Ford shop rate on the job. Its 12 hours. And a whole bunch of shop supplies.

Sounds like an f u deal. If the pump goes they should replace all 8 injectors.

When was the last time you heard of a CP3 failing ? Even when guys are shimming or blocking the rail relief valve ! I rest my case !

 

[jkidd_39]

And you've done it in 6 hours ? Go check the Ford shop rate on the job. Its 12 hours. And a whole bunch of shop supplies.

When was the last time you heard of a CP3 failing ? Even when guys are shimming or blocking the rail relief valve ! I rest my case !

Yes I have done it in 6hrs. Just saying 12hrs is a little excessive.

And I was referring to the injection pump on the 6.4. If you got shavings in the pump then the injectors need to be replaced.

Wasn't trying to argue or offend. Just telling you what I know.

I personally hate my 6.4 when it comes to reliability. But it's a beast for work.

If you wanna do a swap then have at it. They are a very lengthy process. I'm in the middle of one and 15k for a swap is barebones. You think you are really gonna put in a cummins with out doing a bunch of stuff to it??

Cam swap comes to mind as much easier on the stand. Or rods.. Or pistons. Or headjob.

I'll have around $16k in my engine once all said and done.

Ahhh. The joys of building your own truck. Piss poor but happy haha

 

[twisted powerst]

Will they builted me one toos?

hahahah your truck not even making 900 at the wheels and u say that it sounds to me like u need 6.4


as far as making 700 at the wheels mine is making more then that with stock heads and cam and bottom end and there is 6.4 making one 1000 on a pretty much stock motor

 

[jkidd_39]

hahahah your truck not even making 900 at the wheels and u say that it sounds to me like u need 6.4


as far as making 700 at the wheels mine is making more then that with stock heads and cam and bottom end and there is 6.4 making one 1000 on a pretty much stock motor

Please tell us about your 6.4 then? Elite chargers?? What percentage nozzles??

And I won't dispute that the power can't be made but how long will it stay together??

If your running elite high powers then you got $7-8k in your chargers. And you gotta pretty much pop the cab to work on them.

You can compound a cummins and do alot for with that $7-8k.

Just saying.

I'd love to hear about you rig regardless.

 

[rbmedic75]

They have piston issues because they have a chitty fuel system. The HPFPs are weak and blow up, taking out injectors with it. Only people don't notice only a single injector leaking and they burn the piston.

Turbo backpressure is about 1/30th of combustion pressure. It has NOTHING to do with piston issues. If exhaust backpressure was an issue then everyone running an exhaust brake would have problems.

Turbo back pressure is 1/30th of combustion pressure, ok ill take the numbers for what they are worth. but exhaust brakes blowing heads and pistons are TWO totally different scenarios. WHen the Exhaust brake is on the throttle is at ZERO position which means NO fuel, which means low cylinder pressures, LOW egts, low timing, ETC. back pressure becomes the problem when it is ADDED to the equation under heavy fueling/higher EGTS/added timing/ETC. Dont think back pressure can cause problems get a standalone exhaust brake flip it on and drop the fuel pedal, let me know what happens. Or better yet fabricate something to block of exhaust at the turbo and then run the piss out of the truck. either way I bet you theory of back pressure doesnt blow motors will change.

 

[me2]

Yes I have done it in 6hrs. Just saying 12hrs is a little excessive.

Its the Ford shop rate. That is to pull the cab and pull the pump. That is after the valve covers have been pulled and shavings have been found. Which is another few hours.

If you wanna do a swap then have at it. They are a very lengthy process. I'm in the middle of one and 15k for a swap is barebones. You think you are really gonna put in a cummins with out doing a bunch of stuff to it??

Well... I did this one 6 years ago.

Stock engine, but still way more power than the 7.3 it replaced.

The whole swap only cost a couple thousand dollars. Less than putting a new set of injectors into the 7.3 And I got a low mileage 5.9CR out of it. That was 90K ago. And I've done nothing to it since. It was a great project. I'd do it again... well, I guess I am.

Cam swap comes to mind as much easier on the stand. Or rods.. Or pistons. Or headjob.

I'll have around $16k in my engine once all said and done.

That is great.

I'm doing DIY twins, EFI live and headstuds on my 6.7.

Like I said, I use it for towing, not racing.

It will still put close to 600 HP to ground when I'm done. 600 TOWING HP, not dyno queen HP. Big difference.

 

[twisted powerst]

try dual fuelers ,100% over injectors ,elite stage 2 fuel system ,air dog and a single mpd s475 will put u over 1000

 

[me2]

Dont think back pressure can cause problems get a standalone exhaust brake flip it on and drop the fuel pedal, let me know what happens.

That is a totally different scenario.

The exhaust brake is a potato in the exhaust. Its basically plugged. No airflow.

Turbo backpressure is followed on the intake stroke with a ton of manifold pressure, which equals lots of airflow.

Lets say you have 75 PSI of backpressure from the turbo. By the time the piston goes to the bottom of the intake stroke, that gas is at about 5 PSI. Meanwhile the incoming cool air is at 70 PSI. What is the problem ?

The biggest part of the problem is probably people running turbos way outside their map, resulting in really hot manifold air temps.

 

[me2]

try dual fuelers ,100% over injectors ,elite stage 2 fuel system ,air dog and a single mpd s475 will put u over 1000

For 10 seconds on the dyno, with lots of smoke and sky high EGTs. Big deal. What the hell good is that ? Its a dyno queen.

If you want to make a 1000 reliable HP, you need twins with an S480 or S510 primary. 80 PSI of boost, properly cooled too. How is your 6.4 going to hold up to 80 PSI of boost ?

There is a reason the big power truck pullers use Cummins.

 

[twisted powerst]

yeah the reason is bc the cummins be out forever and they have all the parts in the world for them that goes back to my first post the 5.9 cummins has been out alot longer then the 6.4 and as more and more parts come out for the 6.4 there will be more pullers with them as of not holding up the guys a mpd r not having any problems them holding up and look i am not going to argue with u dont need twins or 80 pounds of boost to make 1000 horsepower they r making it with a single s475

 

[AHall]

yeah the reason is bc the cummins be out forever and they have all the parts in the world for them that goes back to my first post the 5.9 cummins has been out alot longer then the 6.4 and as more and more parts come out for the 6.4 there will be more pullers with them as of not holding up the guys a mpd r not having any problems them holding up and look i am not going to argue with u dont need twins or 80 pounds of boost to make 1000 horsepower they r making it with a single s475

You say cummins has so many more parts because they have been out "forever". Which ones are you referring to exactly?