S366 Turbo

I wish I could have a visual since its hard for me to understand without looking at what I need to see =(
 
How would I verify what the timing is at the current moment I am trying to find a visual on this exact procedure haven't been able to find anything but I would like to get 3 more degrees. I believe its at 18 I think 21 degrees would work great
 
zrultima said:
How would I verify what the timing is at the current moment I am trying to find a visual on this exact procedure haven't been able to find anything but I would like to get 3 more degrees. I believe its at 18 I think 21 degrees would work great
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That's tough if you don't remember. The easiest thing to do is to use the pin and know where your pump is pinned. Like I said, you timing case will say what you ppump is pinned to stock, so you set it there as a baseline (probably 12.5 or 14deg btdc) and then adjust.

You can follow what this guy does with everything except the delivery valve stuff, instead you want to just bar the engine without the injection pump gear installed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8U7QC_hpE
 
Thank you again Cornelius I really wish I could have a better idea but I will try it today after work im pretty sure ill get stumped lol. All im thinking of now is I hope I don't blow the tranny
 
Oh, you can blow a stock or slightly modified trans with a lot less done that what I see you have! Might want to start putting money away to bite that bullet, or tone the truck back.
 
zrultima said:
How would I verify what the timing is at the current moment I am trying to find a visual on this exact procedure haven't been able to find anything but I would like to get 3 more degrees. I believe its at 18 I think 21 degrees would work great
Click to expand...

Total lift will give you what your timing is at. I have never udnerstood why people even mess with pin timing the pump first. I time to pump to the total lift (which is what the charts are giving you anyways) and then put the engine to tdc and tighten the pump gear back on.


To check what you are timed at make sure the #1 plunger is down, put the dial indicator in and make sure it is touching it. Turn the engine to TDC. Match that total lift to the timing chart and find what timing you are at.
 
zfaylor said:
Total lift will give you what your timing is at. I have never udnerstood why people even mess with pin timing the pump first. I time to pump to the total lift (which is what the charts are giving you anyways) and then put the engine to tdc and tighten the pump gear back on.


To check what you are timed at make sure the #1 plunger is down, put the dial indicator in and make sure it is touching it. Turn the engine to TDC. Match that total lift to the timing chart and find what timing you are at.
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You've got a timing chart for different pumps with different cams?
Mind sharing?

I suppose you could definitely do it this way and just find max lift, pull the gear, find TDC, then rotate to whatever timing you want, and then toss the gear back on. Assuming you don't have a chart and you don't trust your pin.
 
CorneliusRox said:
You've got a timing chart for different pumps with different cams?
Mind sharing?

I suppose you could definitely do it this way and just find max lift, pull the gear, find TDC, then rotate to whatever timing you want, and then toss the gear back on. Assuming you don't have a chart and you don't trust your pin.
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Main reason I do mine with total lift is I do not trust a timing pin any more. Hard telling the history of these old trucks. Even if the pump had a basic overhaul it is hard telling if the rebuild man got it perfect or if one of the previous owners messed with the plate the pin slides through or who knows what else.

Here are some charts:

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55821


Keep in mind when I say total lift I mean what the chart reads. Many time using the 40 minute youtube method and that has you take the difference between stock timing and desired timing and pin time it then move it that amount of lift (the difference).
 
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Keep in mind pump lobes are not symmetrical which means a timing chart based on a published chart that originally went up to 16 degrees and has been extrapolated using math to publish lift numbers up to 30* could be off by quite a bit.

Also keep in mind that timing isn't an exact science; as long as you have a way to precisely change it up or down from where you were before, eventually you'll find your sweet spot for the intended usage. Even if you use plunger lift method and set if for 21* but end up with 26*, if it runs well then it doesn't really matter. Just keep in mind that from a technical standpoint, plunger lift numbers above 16* are extrapolated guesses at best.
 
Big Blue24 said:
Keep in mind pump lobes are not symmetrical which means a timing chart based on a published chart that originally went up to 16 degrees and has been extrapolated using math to publish lift numbers up to 30* could be off by quite a bit.

Also keep in mind that timing isn't an exact science; as long as you have a way to precisely change it up or down from where you were before, eventually you'll find your sweet spot for the intended usage. Even if you use plunger lift method and set if for 21* but end up with 26*, if it runs well then it doesn't really matter. Just keep in mind that from a technical standpoint, plunger lift numbers above 16* are extrapolated guesses at best.
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Good to know!

I guess the best method would be a high pressure gauge on the end of the injector line, and knowing your injector pop pressure. That should give you exact timing.

But at the end of the day, I agree. Just adjust until it feels right.
 
The most accurate method to set true timing at the pump is to either use the factory timing pin (assuming it's not bent and was set correctly) and then using the balancer with distance markings to add or subtract crank rotational degrees to arrive at your desired timing.

Or, use spill port method to find the exact start of injection and then set that however many degrees advanced or retarded from true TDC you desire using distance markings on the balancer and/or degree wheel.

But at the end of the day, every truck seems to run a little different so does 25.5 vs 23.9 degrees really matter? If 1.6 degrees truly matters, the truck is most likely going to be tested and tuned at 4 or 5 different timing settings to find the best setup anyway...
 
Thanks again for chiming in I believe my tranny rated for 500 hp so anything above that i am in the redzone. Though with the turbo i have its slower spooling then stock and its not like i can go wot where i live until 3 am. thanks for the charts zfaylor helps me understand some of what im looking at.
 
Big Blue24 said:
The most accurate method to set true timing at the pump is to either use the factory timing pin (assuming it's not bent and was set correctly) and then using the balancer with distance markings to add or subtract crank rotational degrees to arrive at your desired timing.

Or, use spill port method to find the exact start of injection and then set that however many degrees advanced or retarded from true TDC you desire using distance markings on the balancer and/or degree wheel.

But at the end of the day, every truck seems to run a little different so does 25.5 vs 23.9 degrees really matter? If 1.6 degrees truly matters, the truck is most likely going to be tested and tuned at 4 or 5 different timing settings to find the best setup anyway...
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If pressure build up isn't based on speed, but just position, couldn't you possibly just remove an injector, pull the shut off solenoid up, and bar the engine. Then when your injector 'popped' you'd know your timing precisely?
 
CorneliusRox said:
If pressure build up isn't based on speed, but just position, couldn't you possibly just remove an injector, pull the shut off solenoid up, and bar the engine. Then when your injector 'popped' you'd know your timing precisely?
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I think it would be difficult to tell when it pops exactly. That is just my opinion. I think big blue is spot on when it comes to timing. Every truck is different and it is honestly nearly impossible in my opinion to ever get timing exact to the degree anyways. There are way too many places for human error and the naked eye to come into play.

Let's just say for simplicity that each step you are off .1 degrees whether that is due human error (pump moving a small amount while tightening the pump gear) or an outlier such as the the pin used to find stock timing being slightly off from stock or even the pin itself going into the pump but not quite centered perfectly. All of that tiny bit of error begins to add up. There comes a point where the numbers do not matter much in the grand scheme of things. Yes it is important to know what ball park you are in. If you are around 30* or below stock obviously that is not a range you necessarily want to be in for most trucks. Other than that it is a matter of a little more or a little less timing to tune the truck in where you want it.

Long story short try to put it in a range you think will benefit the truck. Then tune from there based on how it drives. If you need a little bit more timing you know to take it a degree or two or three more if it is obvious it has too much then you know not to go that far. As much as guys would love to make it a perfect science it is not. It varies between pumps, engines, which injectors, turbo setup, head flow, etc... too much to get caught up in raw numbers. Far too often I hear "I put it to xx* and it just doesn't run right. I verified I am at xx* and it worked well for so and so."
 
when i timed my pump, i bought the timing kit. i can see that these guys are confusing the hell out of you!, if you were gonna send the pump in to get flowed/benched.
then just have them pinned the pump at what ever you desire
!
 
also high timing raises drive pressure!, mine loved 26* but couldn't keep a headgasket in it. lowered to 19, lost little power but doesnt blow hg's nor runs hott.
no 2 trucks will act the same with same setup!
 
Well big blue is the one who did my injectors they are 5x18 with 310 bar i believe time would have gone down due to the injectors but i do want to up my timing thats why i have studs for
 
I would also like to bench my pump but theur not any shops around that i know of that can do the work
 
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