Swole...Again!

Maybe I should build my next motor with These Big A$$ bad boys!!! lol




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I see signs of a few issue's looking at the pictures.

Lots of carbon build up on the pistons sides and top is from one of two things, PTW too loose, or ring seating issue, I.E. (Material,End gap,Direction of Ring instalation/ orientaion, Bore finish).

Cylinder scratches near stud boss. Bore out of round, due to to much stud TQ.

How was the ring tension? Did it feel like stock rings do when you squeez them?
 
DIESEL_POWER said:
I see signs of a few issue's looking at the pictures.

Lots of carbon build up on the pistons sides and top is from one of two things, PTW too loose, or ring seating issue, I.E. (Material,End gap,Direction of Ring instalation/ orientaion, Bore finish).

Cylinder scratches near stud boss. Bore out of round, due to to much stud TQ.

How was the ring tension? Did it feel like stock rings do when you squeez them?
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Not sure if those pics are showing it correctly.
I didn't really inspect them that well.. I do know that some oil film was still running down the walls and that could be what those lines are... Not sure.

When Jeff gets back, I'll have him look at it good.. And get things measured out too.

Ring tension felt normal I guess, but I can't swear to it..
 
the machine shop we use here wont touch a block without having the pistons with it.
 
Hey, nice to see you got the lead out David and pulled those pistons.

Going to miss out on this a bit....currently on tour to pick up the Dyno at Socal diesel and doing the tourist thing.


Holy batman whats with the carbon build up?

The rings looked like they seated fine, they have a nice cut to them, both the top and second. Looks to be very little hard carbon past the first ring suggesting the top ring was doing its job.

*****Except your second ring is upside down......are these Cummins ring packs? ******

The top of this piston sure is oily, does it match up with this hole that has the light scoring? If I remember right you don't know which hole had the injector tip issue? Can you feel those with your finger nail? Did you throw a top ring back into the hole and measure end gap?

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Don't see any issue with the cylinder walls at the studs.

The volume of carbon above the top ring is really bothersome.

The way the 04.5 injectors spray into the bowl does lend to this condition. But it seems pretty exaggerated for such a short period.

Most found when they went to the 04.5 was how fast the oil became contaminated with soot, way faster than the previous bowl.

For comparison here is a pick of one of my pistons, this was just wiped down with a quick spray of brake cleaner, it was just a light dusting of carbon on them, and 30k or so rat bagged miles.

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(Really nice pattern and containment in the bowl)

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Very little buildup above the top ring, its there but pretty thin.

** Notice were the contact patch of the second ring is.

My plan for the 04.5 pistons was to use my current 146 degree injectors, as I still think this is going to put less fuel out of the bowl via a better interference angle.
 
Chris,

Thank you for posting. Hopefully you got my email.

As for the 2nd ring, THIS is what I was afraid of.
I got word yesterday as to why this may have happened by someone else that had a very similar issue.

I've not confirmed it yet with Mahle but I think the ring package (2nd) was marked wrong and is why its upside down.

Jeff told me a long time ago when teaching me on my first build, that you never want to get the oil scraper ring (2nd) upside down....

Could this be the whole issue I was having??


Btw,

No I did not look very close at the block. I was in a hurry to get them boxed up and shipped out. I'll go back down there in a day or so to look closer.

No, this was the ring package that Mahle sent.. They had different markings than Cummins rings... Should I just use Cummins next round?

No, on the cylinder that had the tip split..
No, I dont recall being able to feel the "scoring"
No, I didn't pull the rings out to test gap yet... I wanted to leave them in the same shape as they came out so Mahle could get the full picture when doing the inspection.
 
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BTW, if this ring being marked wrong and upside down is correct, This Would Totally be Right in line with MY kind of freakin Luck!!!!

4 months lost again of driving / racing my truck!!!


UGH!!!
 
Chris or anyone,


Are there ring packs that have oil scraper rings that can go either way??

Or are they all marked for a "top side" like the top ring??


Could mine being upside down have been pulling the oil up and passed the top ring?
 
David, I can't read my mail on the road, my BB is fubar! I cleaned out the PM's so should be good to go on here.

I can't make it out real great but it does look like the back cut on your second ring is upside down as well......

Here's a shot of a cummins ring......Now maybe some second rings ARE set up the way yours is BUT AFAIK a taper face is set to scrape down.

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That reminds me, could you PM Eric`s email I totally forgot to send him the photos of my pistons. I`ll hijack my wifes email to send them out.
 
So if it was scraping UP instead of Down, This would be my oil loss / consumption issue and then cause all my white smoke / sputtering?

I will PM his info to you in just a bit.. I accidently lost Several of my PM's too from a "fat finger" mistake I made a while back.... I'll get my phone to get it for you.
 
Big Swole said:
So if it was scraping UP instead of Down, This would be my oil loss / consumption issue and then cause all my white smoke / sputtering?
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Sound reasonable to me. Plus it would keep the top ring from ever seating. As well as the second ring being improperly seated.
 
Swole. Shawn had the same issue he called me about when assembling his engine for the second time. He noticed the top marked on the ring, but his scraper going up?? Like the ring was marked wrong


Are these Cummins brand rings Mahle is using?
 
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SHughes said:
Sound reasonable to me. Plus it would keep the top ring from ever seating. As well as the second ring being improperly seated.
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This is what I'm thinking as well!!

Snedge said:
Swole. Shawn had the same issue he called me about when assembling his engine for the second time. He noticed the top marked on the ring, but his scraper going up?? Like the ring was marked wrong


Are these Cummins brand rings Mahle is using?
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YUP!!

He Just told me this yesterday!! I couldn't believe it!
This is why I'm totally convinced that THIS is my issue!! :doh:

The rings were packaged in Mahle packaging! So I don't know who made them. They were just sent with the package.

I'll be calling you Monday to order that stuff I sent you a PM about ( rod bolts, squirter and bolts (04.5+), Oil pan gasket, and the Oil pick up tube gasket.
 
:Cheer:
I'd say it's your problem also. I noticed that 2nd ring upside down when first viewing your picks, and thought about his issue. There is no way #2 can do it's job if it's flipped. Check those bores real close, hopefully you're looking at a quickie ball hone, new rings and back together.
I don't know if Shawns is up and running yet, but I told him to kick in in the ass right out of the gate and not baby his like he did the first time either.
 
Can't wait to see what Mahle has to say.

Obviously this is not an isolated issue, it could have much wider spread ramifications.
 
Hey Swole here is a shot of mine zoom in its marked top on the second ring. I will pull one of my pistons soon to insure mine is not marked wrong either before I pull the head down. My rings came in Mahle packing and have a M marking thinking its Mahles own. The shiny one being chrome faced. Hopefully its just that simple even though you lost valuable drive/race time. "Joesixpack" very nice call on that one also are your new Mono's look like mine without the skirt covers like your old ones?

Chris.

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc364/Freezingsystems/Drag%20Truck%20build%202011/DSC01798.jpg
 
SHughes said:
Can't wait to see what Mahle has to say.

Obviously this is not an isolated issue, it could have much wider spread ramifications.
Click to expand...

This will fall into the ship happens file.
Mahle and Clevite sleep in the same bed now, so I'm assuming these are Clevite/Felpro ring sets.
 
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