Swole's Carnage AGAIN!!!!

BigB82789 can suck it...

Stupid comments like that really help the forum out. So your saying Smarty just decided to melt down one piston? Wow...jus wow...really smart!

I run Flux 5.0+ with a Smarty all day every day on the most timing advance Smarty has...default! No rattle...no nothing. Don M has discussed before that there is NOT necessarly a net timing advance due to injector size with his injectors...ie in my case...the Flux 5's are not squirting fuel in any sooner...

If anything...here is my prediction...with a little more thought than the dumbass above.

You lost and injector in that cylinder....which turns it into a blow torch.

What were EGT's? Injection Pressure? Boost? Do you have two EGT probes?
Since the line was blown off the Top CP3...I would say its safe to say something spiked the system hard....cracked a tip...sent it through the motor...took out the wheel in the turbo....etc etc...



I would never turn the MP-8 past 50% max....I love them...they work great...but they are kinda like Crack Cocaine to injectors...
 
I can't even see the pics at the moment and I'm sick. Sorry dude.
 
Dang man that sucks. This whole deal has me worried that my timing is too high on my p-pump 24v, i dont want to melt my pistons like that...
 
I'm with you TJ...timing may have been PART of my melt down. Not near as bad though. I might run 30* on the street any more.
 
cquestad said:
BigB82789 can suck it...

Stupid comments like that really help the forum out. So your saying Smarty just decided to melt down one piston? Wow...jus wow...really smart!

I run Flux 5.0+ with a Smarty all day every day on the most timing advance Smarty has...default! No rattle...no nothing. Don M has discussed before that there is NOT necessarly a net timing advance due to injector size with his injectors...ie in my case...the Flux 5's are not squirting fuel in any sooner...

If anything...here is my prediction...with a little more thought than the dumbass above.

You lost and injector in that cylinder....which turns it into a blow torch.

What were EGT's? Injection Pressure? Boost? Do you have two EGT probes?
Since the line was blown off the Top CP3...I would say its safe to say something spiked the system hard....cracked a tip...sent it through the motor...took out the wheel in the turbo....etc etc...



I would never turn the MP-8 past 50% max....I love them...they work great...but they are kinda like Crack Cocaine to injectors...
Click to expand...

I have to agree with your assetment.

But what do you suggest will fix the out of bowl spray pattern? timing? injector depth?
 
cquestad said:
03-04 pistons and injectors...and programing.
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Practical changes. changing to a different tip with a different angle, washer thickness, programmer is practical. swapping pistons is not, unless you're already blown up.
 
Big Swole.................Sorry buddy :(

cquestad said:
I would never turn the MP-8 past 50% max....I love them...they work great...but they are kinda like Crack Cocaine to injectors...
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more!!!!

I will post some datalogs of rail pressures on the dyno at different MP-8 settings in a bit....................people will be amazed:poke:
 
I think that is practical....once you are at the 750hp plus club. Otherwise...join the guessing game to why the newer ones wont make the power...then if they do...when and how is it going to burn down.

If they were Flux injectors...I am sure Don put the right washer on them.

What total change was there in height......decking and gasket change?
 
Swole, sorry to hear about the meltdown again... It's tough enough to go thru it once.

Not to sway your opinion on the rebuild, but I'd donate some parts to the build if you decide to ppump it.... :poke:
 
I would love to see you p-pump that truck, get it in the 10's, and have it be (fairly) reliable. But obviously streetability will be an issue.
 
ctdiesel99 said:
I'm sorry but water is NOT the answer. If you want to add it to put a bandaid on other problems you dont feel like addressing that's fine. But if properly tuned water is not a necessity on a high horsepower competition engine. i.e.100+ hooks later - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
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With respect, I disagree. This much HP density and this combination of parts would benefit with the addition of water.

As an FYI, I machined .030" off the injector nozzle caps on this injector set. This allows the use of the stock copper washers that anyone can locate/find in a pinch. It makes less difference in the end than we would all like to think anyway. Lower or not lower, you have too much heat being let go too fast. Also, I know I harp on the use of water and I would bet a dollar I asked or perhaps even begged for water to go on this engine.

Most of these threads get deflected anyway. Mis-info a BS gets people going all kinds of directions. Confusion is not far behind.

Even taking steps like we did to lower piston temps like opening the exhaust valve earlier than stock, holding it open longer to allow more heat to get out, using twin turbos, longer intake duration, etc we still have a toasted engine.

I bet most of the damage was caused at the staging lanes. Thats when CR's that are built, suffer the most. I cant say much else. It'll get drowned out anyway.
:bang
 
I see what you are saying about the main problem being the intensity of the heat at the injection point especially if the timing is advanced. How big of a problem is the heat from the 3rd injection event relative to high timing heat absorbtion? I understand it is hard to sit here and say a specific thing caused a problem but how relevant are the other factors?
 
Soup Nazi said:
With respect, I disagree. This much HP density and this combination of parts would benefit with the addition of water.
:bang
Click to expand...

Is the water just being recomended as a cooling agent? I mean would an intercooler upgrade that decreases air temps before the motor serve the same purpose or even enhance the water's effects by being cooler before the water contacts the air?
 
Soup Nazi said:
I bet most of the damage was caused at the staging lanes. Thats when CR's that are built, suffer the most.
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I totally agree with this statement. When David heard the noise while staging, the inital damage had already been done.

David, I'm really sorry to hear about this. I have some used spare parts if they will help. Let me know.

Paul
 
BigErk77 said:
I see what you are saying about the main problem being the intensity of the heat at the injection point especially if the timing is advanced. How big of a problem is the heat from the 3rd injection event relative to high timing heat absorbtion? I understand it is hard to sit here and say a specific thing caused a problem but how relevant are the other factors?
Click to expand...

I believe it it was joesixpack that proved the 3rd event goes away under rpm and load.
 
wow, that is pretty chitty to hear. i would seriously be drinking before i started to laugh at something like that. good luck on gettin'er back up and soon.

Garrett
 
Do the duramax and CR fords have the same proliferance of meltdowns?

If not.... what's the difference? Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single hot 6.4 powerstroke that has melted pistons like this. And they're making similar power. I don't think it's common on Dmaxes either.

Dodge guys have a specific problem, and CR probably isn't it. Something other than the mere existence of a CR injector and CR injection pressure is the culprit here.

The fact that it seems acceptable that you guys have no F'ing clue what you timing is has always shocked me.



On Edit:

If we're taking the approach of mass fuel burned per unit time as a reference for BTU's put into that cylinder environment, then the reason the V8's seem to suffer this less, if ever, might simply be due to the fact that the power output per cylinder is less. BSFC held constant, that would mean less fuel injected, less fuel burned and less BTU's per putt being endured by the 8 cylinder engines, all else constant.

The 6 cylinder must produce 16.6% of the total power per cylinder. The 8 cylinder only 12.5%. Simple math tells us that each cylinder of the 6 cylinder engine will endure 32% more fuel per time for a given power output. The specific power is simply higher.

Maybe it's as simple as that.

For a practical example, for an 8 cylinder engine to endure the same quantity of fuel burned per cylinder as a comparable 6 cylinder engine making 800hp, the 8 cylinder engine would have to be making over 1066hp.

Damn.... did I just figure out one time where the 8 > 6 ???


:hehe:
 
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Charles said:
Do the duramax and CR fords have the same proliferance of meltdowns?

If not.... what's the difference? Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single hot 6.4 powerstroke that has melted pistons like this. And they're making similar power. I don't think it's common on Dmaxes either.

Dodge guys have a specific problem, and CR probably isn't it. Something other than the mere existence of a CR injector and CR injection pressure is the culprit here.

The fact that it seems acceptable that you guys have no F'ing clue what you timing is has always shocked me.
Click to expand...

Something small but perhaps a contribution; 6 cylinders making 1000hp will have to deal with more abuse, heat, pressure, etc. then 8 cylinders making 1000hp in the same rpm range. That's one possible culprit.

Looks like you were editing as I was typing my response.

I could not explain specifics given i'm only going on what others I tend to believe have said but piston design has been brought up a few times.
 
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