Swole's Carnage AGAIN!!!!

NickTF said:
Something small but perhaps a contribution; 6 cylinders making 1000hp will have to deal with more abuse, heat, pressure, etc. then 8 cylinders making 1000hp in the same rpm range. That's one possible culprit.
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While I was editing...
 
Charles said:
Dodge guys have a specific problem, and CR probably isn't it. Something other than the mere existence of a CR injector and CR injection pressure is the culprit here.
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Should be obvious, but the finger gets pointed elsewhere.
 
Charles said:
Do the duramax and CR fords have the same proliferance of meltdowns?

If not.... what's the difference? Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single hot 6.4 powerstroke that has melted pistons like this. And they're making similar power. I don't think it's common on Dmaxes either.

Dodge guys have a specific problem, and CR probably isn't it. Something other than the mere existence of a CR injector and CR injection pressure is the culprit here.

The fact that it seems acceptable that you guys have no F'ing clue what you timing is has always shocked me.



On Edit:

If we're taking the approach of mass fuel burned per unit time as a reference for BTU's put into that cylinder environment, then the reason the V8's seem to suffer this less, if ever, might simply be due to the fact that the power output per cylinder is less. BSFC held constant, that would mean less fuel injected, less fuel burned and less BTU's per putt being endured by the 8 cylinder engines, all else constant.

The 6 cylinder must produce 16.6% of the total power per cylinder. The 8 cylinder only 12.5%. Simple math tells us that each cylinder of the 6 cylinder engine will endure 32% more fuel per time for a given power output. The specific power is simply higher.

Maybe it's as simple as that.

For a practical example, for an 8 cylinder engine to endure the same quantity of fuel burned per cylinder as a comparable 6 cylinder engine making 800hp, the 8 cylinder engine would have to be making over 1066hp.

Damn.... did I just figure out one time where the 8 > 6 ???


:hehe:
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Back in the day when the Dmax crowed and now even the 6.4 crowd would say " look at all the HP we make on just a programmer".. No chit, you have 20% more injectors that flow the same amount of fuel per injector as the CR's. I would hope you make 20% more hp.. and well, they do. :)

Not to many 1100hp DMAXes daily driven to 2500 miles in a few months are there?

IIRC, didn't Banks have piston issues last year? didn't specificly say melting but piston issues. IIRC.
 
Charles said:
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single hot 6.4 powerstroke that has melted pistons like this. And they're making similar power.
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Huh? :confused:

Come on Charlie.....The 6.4's to date are making 200+ hp less on fuel with 2 more cylinders :poke:
 
O M F G!

i think im putting my truck up for sale befor i see this in my driveway.....

what were your tune setting and at what temps?

your the second guy this week,thati know has had atleast one ceramic piston in their trucks take a chit. imo is useless in cr's.

but this is the time to step back and take a big drink out of a tall dark glass.

sorry.
 
Dockboy said:
Huh? :confused:

Come on Charlie.....The 6.4's to date are making 200+ hp less on fuel with 2 more cylinders :poke:
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Apples to Apples would be a stock motor + programmer.

Modified motor, different comparison. There are 6.4's in the 1000hp range already, modified more then a programmer
 
just wanted to say.... I've raced my truck for 3 yrs at 750hp with a constant horrible rattle on a single turbo. I've also raced it using TNT-R w/the MP-8 on 100% every time. I never set my timing or rail psi on anything other than #1. Don't know if I've just been lucky but, I've not needed water to prevent a melt down ( although I'm sure it doesn't hurt to have ) and for the size of my truck it's ran like a banchee.

After seeing what the gauges showed on my initial run with my twins.... I'm a lot more concerned about WOT than I was with a single. There's a lot of air now but, that just means more fuel which = heat to run them.

IMHO, as mentioned, the damage was done when the PPE was loaded. Swole just happen to have the Smarty loaded when it finally let go. Programming is key to longevity more than air or water again...IMHO.
 
JasonCzerak said:
There are 6.4's in the 1000hp range already, modified more then a programmer
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There are no 6.4's on fuel in the 1000 hp range yet:poke: ..............high 600's


alot of the CR's melting are on fuel only. Nitrous changes the burn, so comparing melt downs between fuel and nitrous would be different even if the hp #'s were the same.
 
Dockboy said:
There are no 6.4's on fuel in the 1000 hp range yet:poke: ..............high 600's


alot of the CR's melting are on fuel only. Nitrous changes the burn, so comparing melt downs between fuel and nitrous would be different even if the hp #'s were the same.
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Good point. But how many stock turbo 5.9's at 600hp? 500-550-ish is about right for a 5.9. OMG, wait, is 650 20% more then 525? I think so :)

Well, the math is a little fuzzy but my overall point is still true as with the dmax and now the 6.4.
 
Dockboy said:
Huh? :confused:

Come on Charlie.....The 6.4's to date are making 200+ hp less on fuel with 2 more cylinders :poke:
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Unfair. Gravity pushes down harder on a vertically oriented piston than a V-8.
 
Dockboy could you post up those finding you had with the Mp-8? I am kinda curious to see that. So would the stand alone be an answer for melting engines? Now you could set the timing and everything else as long as in theory you knew what you were doing.
 
cquestad said:
BigB82789 can suck it...

Stupid comments like that really help the forum out. So your saying Smarty just decided to melt down one piston? Wow...jus wow...really smart!

I run Flux 5.0+ with a Smarty all day every day on the most timing advance Smarty has...default! No rattle...no nothing. Don M has discussed before that there is NOT necessarly a net timing advance due to injector size with his injectors...ie in my case...the Flux 5's are not squirting fuel in any sooner...

If anything...here is my prediction...with a little more thought than the dumbass above.

You lost and injector in that cylinder....which turns it into a blow torch.

What were EGT's? Injection Pressure? Boost? Do you have two EGT probes?
Since the line was blown off the Top CP3...I would say its safe to say something spiked the system hard....cracked a tip...sent it through the motor...took out the wheel in the turbo....etc etc...



I would never turn the MP-8 past 50% max....I love them...they work great...but they are kinda like Crack Cocaine to injectors...
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Sorry to hurt your feelings I guess I struck a nerve there! The truck ran with no problems with the PPE and as soon as he throws the smarty on it turns the pistons to liquid, and this isn't the first time. I don't recall seeing anywhere in my post saying smarty decided to burn opne piston, it burnt atleast two!
 
BigB82789 said:
Sorry to hurt your feelings I guess I struck a nerve there! The truck ran with no problems with the PPE and as soon as he throws the smarty on it turns the pistons to liquid, and this isn't the first time. I don't recall seeing anywhere in my post saying smarty decided to burn opne piston, it burnt atleast two!
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So you're saying all of that damage to the number 5 piston all happened during one 11sec pass?
 
Lets see.......

So far we have blamed:
Timing
Programming
Pressure Box
What Swole ate for dinner
Injectors
Pistons
Swole's foot
Evil Spirits and
Voodoo.

There is a picture up there that pretty much tells you what you need to know.....
 
For those interested, here are datalogs of 3 dyno runs with a MP-8 at 0, 50%, and 100%. The rail sensor max range is 26.1K psi

White = RPM
Grey = Thottle position
Red = Rail pressure (x1k)

MP-8 at 0% Max RP 24.9k psi

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MP-8 at 50% Max RP 26.1k+ psi

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MP-8 at 100% Max RP 26.1k+ psi but look how long it is maxed after the throttle is dropped!

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Again, I AM NOT SAYING IT IS THE MP-8 CAUSING THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!! Just that cranking things to the max is not always a good thing!!!
 

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