Swole's Infamy of Carnage Continues!!

Big Swole said:
Yes it was "Bad"! PPE stated that it was being replaced due to them finding that it was "not within their specs".

And when I cranked it the first time after rebuild, my rail pressure sensor was found to be bad aswell. This , I have no clue why! It was sent to TCDiesel when my rail and PRV was done. So I dont know if it went bad the night at the track or if it went bad or got trash in it afterwards.


So, I do Not think my last issue was injector related.
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wasn't sure... I thought I remember you saying something about having trouble getting them to do anything for you stating it wasn't their boxes problem.
 
TheBigNasty said:
I'm not going to disagree that tuning, or your selection of premade programs moreso, is part of a successful, powerful engine. I will disagree that it is the only reason. Just as I disagree that you can't run duals without risk. Everything just needs to be understood and made to work together.
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The problem is, that ere is no fuel system that is gonna work at 40,50,60k psi spikes.
 
I'm back nagging about the boxes. You don't want to cheat everything. You will get molten parts in the process. If you cheat the rail pressure sensor to more then your allowed spikes are also higher. If you cheat the timing you get the desired timing+ the cheat from the get go. Do you want to inject at that early point in low revs? Can you controll the pre and post injections with your cheat boxes? No you can not. And that is whats melting the parts. Thats whats the marketing folks from the very profitable companies that sell you that crap is trying to keep hidden. Try to ask them what exactly is their product doing. They say +x hp. And what does that lead you to? Your wallet emptied and your butt hurt...

I for one don't believe for a second that dual pumps is causing all of these issues. I don't even think its all about the injectors. Its just a matter of control. You cheat in a poker game for long enough and you can predict the results. You will get caught and punished. Same rule applies here. You cheat and you get smacked from that.
 
triton said:
I'm definitely no expert on this but, I would put money on the fact that Bosch designed their fuel system to well exceed the 24K many think they should have. I wouldn't doubt the system can handle double what it's designed for. That would put it up in the 40 to 50K range. No, you wouldn't want to run it there but, I wouldn't think Bosch would design it to where it would fail at 30K or less.

Swole, like Weston said.... you answered your own statement. Maybe I have been lucky but then, so have many others who did what I did. So, it's either luck for everyone or something was done right. Your injectors have failed more than they haven't. Your fuel line coming a part could have been installation error (cross threaded or just not tight enough ) or some weird electronic thing but, I believe you would have had to seen 40K+ for the psi to have blown it a part. You don't have anything different as far as dual pumps, psi box and/or the Smarty...etc than anyone else does so why would it only be your truck ? Something else is at play IMHO.
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Even if it was cross threaded, dont you think it would take some insane pressure to pull the nut off the threads? If it was installation error or not, there was something very wrong with the rail pressure.
 
Again, design your parts to work properly. Two cp3's? Two prv's or similar.

Also, why would two cp3's create more of a pressure spike than a single that has more displacement than the two?
 
No one still has ever clarified this question. If your making a pass or running down the street at WOT or whatever, then you instantly lift the accelerator. Pressure spikes, correct? So if you have dual cp3's and a pressure box jacked up, what are the pressure spikes compared to a single cp3? It may not be double, but Id bet its a hell of a lot more that a single pump spikes. I would like someone who has tested this on a machine to chime in and tell us what happens.
 
If anything I'd imagine two pumps would be able to control fuel better than one large one. Instead of shutting off a large volume of fuel through one fca you have two smaller volumes through two fca's that are not as likely to be at as open of position as just the one.
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
Even if it was cross threaded, dont you think it would take some insane pressure to pull the nut off the threads? If it was installation error or not, there was something very wrong with the rail pressure.
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Swoles truck is a freak of nature then because he's the only one who's ever had their lines blow a part..... that I've ever heard of. There are thousands of PPE kits out there and you'd think if it was a common occurrence we'd have heard much more about it, same goes for their controllers. Like I said, I'd put money on the fact the Bosch system is designed to handle extreme psi's. Whether it works there or not.... I don't want to find out. I seriously doubt Swoles psi's spiked to the levels you mentioned, ya never know though.

Swole said he felt/heard something while spooling at the line. Jeff and Phil who were standing there also said they heard something while he was spooling. Not sure what it was, Swole took off. Seems to me the problem occurred or started to occur before the WOT run. That tells me, it very well my not have been a psi spike that caused the lines to blow cause he wasn't at full rail psi spooling.
 
I melted my motor about 1 year ago, im back to running almost the same box's diff is im running 4k less rail pressure, I honestly cant say what melted the truck the first time. I believe it was a injector stuck open.. im not sure though. the thing that leads me to not believe the injectors was the main issue is the fact that I melted 3 pistons not 1... whats the odds of 3 injectors goingbad at once.. very slim.. I believe it was heat and rp that caused it.. I raced a mustang 5 times in a row from about 40-120mph... never again..lol

with the help of wesley and my buddie I have been able to make good power while not runnign a ton of rp or timing. and the heat isnt that crazy either.
 
triton said:
Swoles truck is a freak of nature then because he's the only one who's ever had their lines blow a part..... that I've ever heard of. There are thousands of PPE kits out there and you'd think if it was a common occurrence we'd have heard much more about it, same goes for their controllers. Like I said, I'd put money on the fact the Bosch system is designed to handle extreme psi's. Whether it works there or not.... I don't want to find out. I seriously doubt Swoles psi's spiked to the levels you mentioned, ya never know though.

Swole said he felt/heard something while spooling at the line. Jeff and Phil who were standing there also said they heard something while he was spooling. Not sure what it was, Swole took off. Seems to me the problem occurred or started to occur before the WOT run. That tells me, it very well my not have been a psi spike that caused the lines to blow cause he wasn't at full rail psi spooling.
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I dunno if this helps you or anything but we had a guy with an 07 with the ppe dual fuelers flux 4.5s smarty, and mp8 and he blew the line off of his on the dyno but the motor wasnt harmed (yet)
 
I was just pointing out it's not a very common thing. PPE would be getting a ration a crap about it all over the place if it was. What is very common is for the #4 injector hold down to come loose. That has caused many leaks and if let go long enough would probably blow the line. Swoles line blew IIRC at the T from the pumps
 
nemesis said:
Triton what injectors do you run? just curious
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untouched stock bodies with EH tips. Most others I know that have done the same haven't had one issue either. Sure, my day may come but, in 4yrs at 750hp with dual CP3's my rail capped and the MP-8 on 100%... I've been good to go.
 
nemesis said:
running smarty as well?
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yes, TNT/R. I have always been very careful about timing though. My injectors add a lot on their own so I've never found a need to add to that. I always run the non timing even numbered software and timing has always been ran on #1 as has the rail psi.. #1.
 
I believe the controller PPE uses is the same as most of the popular dual pump kits, so it would seem we would have had more than one controller problem known to date.

When i talked to a Bosch Eng. he claimed the 5.9cr system was designed to run at 24K. He said the injectors and the cp3 reacts a different times. So when you lift the pedal from WOT your injectors goes back to idle fuel... The cp3 keeps fueling psi for micro seconds after (rail spike) then comes off to idle fueling psi. Under extrem psi systems (psi box) he has seen injector failures happen instantly due to stored psi with out the release into the cylinder.
 
joelc79 said:
I believe the controller PPE uses is the same as most of the popular dual pump kits, so it would seem we would have had more than one controller problem known to date.

When i talked to a Bosch Eng. he claimed the 5.9cr system was designed to run at 24K. He said the injectors and the cps reacts a different times. So when you lift the pedal from WOT your injectors goes back to idle fuel... The cp3 keeps fueling psi for micro seconds after (rail spike) then comes off to idle fueling psi. Under extrem psi systems (psi box) he has seen injector failures happen instantly due to stored psi with out the release into the cylinder.
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I don't know of any other controllers for duals than PPE's and ATS. The two are definitely different because you can only run low psi to the pumps with PPE but, the ATS can take much more.

Wouldn't you think the stored psi would go to the return if it can't go to the cylinders ? Maybe too much restriction in the return is a problem ??
 
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