Swole's Infamy of Carnage Continues!!

Well i just seen a few pages back guys were drilling out the return banjo.
I would agree with you on this but it happens so fast the fuel doesn't have time to think where to go...ya know what i mean?... i think
 
hatemi said:
I'm back nagging about the boxes. You don't want to cheat everything. You will get molten parts in the process. If you cheat the rail pressure sensor to more then your allowed spikes are also higher. If you cheat the timing you get the desired timing+ the cheat from the get go. Do you want to inject at that early point in low revs? Can you controll the pre and post injections with your cheat boxes? No you can not. And that is whats melting the parts. Thats whats the marketing folks from the very profitable companies that sell you that crap is trying to keep hidden. Try to ask them what exactly is their product doing. They say +x hp. And what does that lead you to? Your wallet emptied and your butt hurt...
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I'm glad to see others see this also.
 
Smokem said:
I'm glad to see others see this also.
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I agree with this too but, what can you do ? Most don't have the know how to make something themselves, most don't have the money to go stand alone so, you use what you think is the best for your needs and hope for the best :doh:
 
triton said:
I agree with this too but, what can you do ? Most don't have the know how to make something themselves, most don't have the money to go stand alone so, you use what you think is the best for your needs and hope for the best :doh:
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Request information about said company's product, if they are unwilling to give any detailed information, don't support them by giving them your business.
 
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Smokem said:
Request information about said companie's product, if they are unwilling to give any detailed information, don't support them by giving them your business.
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agreed but then, we wouldn't have any programmers to use :doh:
 
I guess Swoles thread got side tracked and number of times but, this all is good info IMO.

Swole, did you ever determine a cause ?
 
How much does all the cheat boxes/programmers cost you?

If its even half of a stand alone at around 5000 then ask yourself is the price difference between a totally working and stock like running engine and the touchy cheat thing with higher chance of meltdown worth it.
 
triton said:
I agree with this too but, what can you do ? Most don't have the know how to make something themselves, most don't have the money to go stand alone so, you use what you think is the best for your needs and hope for the best :doh:
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IMHO, if the demand for tunable engine controllers is there they will be built and the price will eventually come down. The gas EFI guys used similar add on boxes to deceive the stock ECUs 10+ years ago and went through similar engine failure/drivability issues. Guess what, as the market matured some fairly affordable standalone EFI controllers were released and are available on the market now (along with some really high end stuff too). The same thing can happen with diesels, provided that people don't give up or decide that sub par electronic engine control is acceptable.

I may be mistaken, but I would think it would be fairly cheap and simple to build a basic, programmable CR engine controller. Maybe I should look into doing it.
 
Besides the one Bean is worken on (Zues) i can't get any other stand alone companies to reply to my inquirey. I guess ya still have to be in some kind of loop.
 
triton said:
I guess Swoles thread got side tracked and number of times but, this all is good info IMO.

Swole, did you ever determine a cause ?
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Dont worry about the thread! This is the kinda good info that is supposed to come frome a thread!! Keep at it!


As for the cause of the last failure, i can only assume something between the bad PPE controller and my bad RP sensor.. Who knows!

This past tip failure I just figure was time / pressure.
 
I am wondering with said stand alone controllers wouldnt the end user have to have some knowledge of the engine he/she is programming? If not I would think they would be able to melt an engine a heck of a lot faster?
 
Sled pulling, I was pulling my rail pressure down to 15k when I was spinning out, so i decied to turn on the pressure box and maxed out out the sensor. When i spun out with the pressure box on, it never pulled the rp below 26,800(max sensor will read). But god only knows what the pressure spiked too going down the track. Probably a near 15k psi rise in rp with just a dr. p!!!!! Result of melted pistons?
 
Brandon have you had your injectors check after every build? And you don't actually run 7.3s right?
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
No one still has ever clarified this question. If your making a pass or running down the street at WOT or whatever, then you instantly lift the accelerator. Pressure spikes, correct? So if you have dual cp3's and a pressure box jacked up, what are the pressure spikes compared to a single cp3? It may not be double, but Id bet its a hell of a lot more that a single pump spikes. I would like someone who has tested this on a machine to chime in and tell us what happens.
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Its more to do with how much stroke your using and at what pressure.......Lots of stroke and pressure is hard to throttle back when you pull your foot out if it quick.

I suggested two pumps would be more difficult due to the fact they are more likely to have more displacement.

The pressure box on max puts a large delay into the equation because its waiting for a drop in MAP to pull fuel, rather than the instant response the ecu is getting from change in requested torque, or accelerator position.


hatemi said:
How much does all the cheat boxes/programmers cost you?

If its even half of a stand alone at around 5000 then ask yourself is the price difference between a totally working and stock like running engine and the touchy cheat thing with higher chance of meltdown worth it.
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A stand alone isn't for everyone, its a short list of folks that have enough under the belt to tune one. Its every bit as capable of blowing your chit to hell and more as the stock ecu.
 
triton said:
I don't know of any other controllers for duals than PPE's and ATS. The two are definitely different because you can only run low psi to the pumps with PPE but, the ATS can take much more.

Wouldn't you think the stored psi would go to the return if it can't go to the cylinders ? Maybe too much restriction in the return is a problem ??
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This is not entirely true. We ran PPE duals on Arons 6.7 with a dmax on top and we ran it with 30psi from the airdog. Anything over that and rp went up at idle. But it liked 30 psi. Ive heard a lot of guys say you cant run that much on a PPE/dmax setup, but it worked perfect on that one.

Also, there have been many more cases of lines being blown and fitting being blown off than you might think. I know of 8 cases of this happening. So Im sure many many more cases are out there. But for some reason, none of the guys thought it was a pressure issue. I believe otherwise. All I know is that if/when mine melts down, I know it wont be from dual cp3's.
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
This is not entirely true. We ran PPE duals on Arons 6.7 with a dmax on top and we ran it with 30psi from the airdog. Anything over that and rp went up at idle. But it liked 30 psi. Ive heard a lot of guys say you cant run that much on a PPE/dmax setup, but it worked perfect on that one.

Also, there have been many more cases of lines being blown and fitting being blown off than you might think. I know of 8 cases of this happening. So Im sure many many more cases are out there. But for some reason, none of the guys thought it was a pressure issue. I believe otherwise. All I know is that if/when mine melts down, I know it wont be from dual cp3's.
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Talk to Dan @ PPE. He will tell you the same thing I did. Maybe there's something different about a 6.7, don't know. I do know that if I set my psi at anymore than 15 to 20, the truck spits and sputters and will not run. Most others will tell you the same that have PPE's.

You seem very adamant about your believes which is all good. I've ran my truck for 4yrs with 300 1/4 miles passes or more with everything opposite from your preferences. She's holding together nicely.
 
How many holes do the 6.7's have? Has anyone been melting those down in similar fashion as swole? I think the pistons are similar to the 03/04 pistons. Aren't they?
 
The reason i believe what I believe is that I havent heard of a whole lot of CR's melting down from running low rp or timing. I understand that your truck has made several passes, and I'm glad that its holding up for you and hope it always does. Although making 1/4 miles passes puts nowhere near the strain on parts as pulling 20-30,000 lbs with a truck that runs the same times. We have pulled steep grades in the black megacab pulling 25k with egt's of 2000+degrees for over a minute thousands of times. That just tells me that CR meltdowns are not as related to egts as say a 12 vale engine. We have ran enough nitrous through that engine to kill a heard of elephants. And have been since 2007. Its still alive with the original HG, cp3, cam, injector bodies and relief valve. I can only believe its because the rp and timing has always been kept at a minimum.
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
The reason i believe what I believe is that I havent heard of a whole lot of CR's melting down from running low rp or timing. I understand that your truck has made several passes, and I'm glad that its holding up for you and hope it always does. Although making 1/4 miles passes puts nowhere near the strain on parts as pulling 20-30,000 lbs with a truck that runs the same times. We have pulled steep grades in the black megacab pulling 25k with egt's of 2000+degrees for over a minute thousands of times. That just tells me that CR meltdowns are not as related to egts as say a 12 vale engine. We have ran enough nitrous through that engine to kill a heard of elephants. And have been since 2007. Its still alive with the original HG, cp3, cam, injector bodies and relief valve. I can only believe its because the rp and timing has always been kept at a minimum.
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My truck has had it's share of loads on it too. It's made several sled pulls and done very well. I'll never do it again since my truck isn't built to do that but, the last pull I did I was having some issues. At the end of the pull my water temp gauge was buried, the egt gauge was buried through the whole pull and the rail psi gauge was up around 28k. None of it good but, I stayed in it. All recipes to have easily melted it down. MP-8 was at 100% with the Smarty on 8. Believe me man, you don't have the market cornered on the best ways to not melt a motor. It can happen to anyone. My reluctance to use any added timing I believe helps to keep my truck together. And.... I don't even have a aftermarket plenum.
 
I'll add my .02

my truck always on tnt #9 / mp-8 @ 50% -75% when racing / duals stge 3 bottom- modded dmax on top
- 15k miles + a stack of time slips(usually 10+ passes per night/ hot laps) and running nitrous... 11.3 fuel 11.1 nitrous all 120+mph
 
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