Transmission Poll

Best tranny

  • Total voters
    82
No... you have no idea what you're talking about...

That has to be the best explanation of the multidimensional programming that is required to make these things work without going kaboom. I hope you get it all dialed in!:Cheer:
 
Would I benefit at all from just getting a converter and a billet input right now?

Im planning on the whole tranny of course, but doing it in stages would be alot easier on the wallet.
 
Get the converter now, but you can wait on the input shaft. You are not putting down the power to worry about it save that money and wait until you do the total tranny.
 
If you change the stall you might. But what are you trying to gain. Single, tripple and quintuple disc converters are the same when they are locked. If you don't think yours is locking you would have gotten a converter clutch failure code by now. Look at engine RPM and input shaft speed. If rpm is higher than input when the converter is locked up you have found your problem.
 
A while back, 4 Wheeler Magazine (I believe) did a before and after dyno test when they upgraded to a NADP transmission. They noticed like a 40 hp gain. In fact, that’s the hp and torque gain that they use in their ads. That gain is directly related to the converter not the transmission. (NADP uses a Sun Coast converter).

When I last talked to Ron (from Sun Coast) about converters, he mentioned they modify/build their stators a little different than any other company. That’s what makes one brands converter different than another’s. I noticed a difference between when I changed everything over. Since the only thing the tranny does different is shift, I have to assume that the difference I feel is directly related to the converter.

As far as 3 disk vs 5 disk, that is all a little bit of a marketing game. The 3 disk when locked, holds just fine. ATS uses a 5 disk for marketing purposes. If I remember correctly (which I may not) but the 5 disks are thinner than the 3 disk that Sun Coasts uses and the overall mass of the 5 is almost the same as the 3. In consumers eye’s, 5 > 3, so its better. That may or may not be true in some cases, but certainly not in this one.
 
hpprose said:
A while back, 4 Wheeler Magazine (I believe) did a before and after dyno test when they upgraded to a NADP transmission. They noticed like a 40 hp gain. In fact, that’s the hp and torque gain that they use in their ads. That gain is directly related to the converter not the transmission. (NADP uses a Sun Coast converter).

When I last talked to Ron (from Sun Coast) about converters, he mentioned they modify/build their stators a little different than any other company. That’s what makes one brands converter different than another’s. I noticed a difference between when I changed everything over. Since the only thing the tranny does different is shift, I have to assume that the difference I feel is directly related to the converter.

As far as 3 disk vs 5 disk, that is all a little bit of a marketing game. The 3 disk when locked, holds just fine. ATS uses a 5 disk for marketing purposes. If I remember correctly (which I may not) but the 5 disks are thinner than the 3 disk that Sun Coasts uses and the overall mass of the 5 is almost the same as the 3. In consumers eye’s, 5 > 3, so its better. That may or may not be true in some cases, but certainly not in this one.
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So If you are dyno'ing a truck you are now leaving the converter unlocked?
 
lubeowner said:
So if it is not tuning, what could be breaking shafts? Too much power?
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Sounds like the problem was something else was bound. When the intermediate broke something else broke too. When the billet shaft was installed then those other parts were still bound/broken and when it was hammered they bound and the intermediate shaft had no choice but to snap again. I have seen this before, guy broke a billet input. He threw in a new one only to snap it again. They didn't go far enough inside to find other broken parts.

With the 5r trans and high hp it can be tough to tune the truck if it can't be live tuned. The other issue can be some guys are modding the EPC solenoid, some aren't, Etc. At this kind of hp it is definitely best to be able to test drive and tune the truck rather than sending tunes over email. That wasn't the case here but just an example.
 
PSDPlayer said:
So If you are dyno'ing a truck you are now leaving the converter unlocked?
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Good call. What they probably did was dyno at low rpm to measure converter efficiency. When I was at ATS we dyno'd a truck unlocked with the oem converter and a 5star. This was to measure converter efficiency of the 5 star. We saw 40-50hp gain over the stock allison converter. both runs unlocked. With the factory trans programming it now locked sooner because the engine speed and input shaft speed were much closer at a sooner time frame.
 
PSDPlayer said:
So If you are dyno'ing a truck you are now leaving the converter unlocked?
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Never said peak power. I haven't seen the graph, but if you look at any of the NADP ads it says,

"47 HP and 221 lb-ft of Torque!
Petersen's 4 wheel & Off-Road magazine recently installed one of our Heavy Hauler Race Series Dodge Transmissions. They did a baseline dyno test on their stock Cummins and then did another dyno test after our transmission was installed. Needless to say, the results were amazing!......."


I know, I feel a difference in my setup vs the stock set up. Whether that is because it loads much harder on the low end, causing the truck to "power up" sooner, of because it locks sooner, or what, there is more power. Since there is no gearing change, you tell me what I feel?
 
I've seen the difference in an 05 Dodge. Stock trans dynoed 531 hp and built trans & converter made 590 with the same engine mods. Now that wasn't on the same dyno both times so you have to take it with a grain of salt.
 
Lock up is controlled by the tune. You don't need a converter lock-up switch in a Ford.

If you have a converter that isn't locking then you can lose power from the slip, but you would get a wrench light with a 6.0L You would get the old 628 failures in the 4R100 and E4OD.
 
hpprose said:
I know, I feel a difference in my setup vs the stock set up. Whether that is because it loads much harder on the low end, causing the truck to "power up" sooner, of because it locks sooner, or what, there is more power. Since there is no gearing change, you tell me what I feel?
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PSDPlayer said:
Lock up is controlled by the tune. You don't need a converter lock-up switch in a Ford.

If you have a converter that isn't locking then you can lose power from the slip, but you would get a wrench light with a 6.0L You would get the old 628 failures in the 4R100 and E4OD.
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So, what do I feel if it has nothing to do with it? They didn't change the gearing.

What transmission and converter are you running and have you run?
 
hpprose said:
So, what do I feel if it has nothing to do with it? They didn't change the gearing.

What transmission and converter are you running and have you run?
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Stall Speed Chart
Engine Min. Max.
6.0L Diesel 2,091 2,401
5.4L Gas 1,824 2,151
6.8L Gas 1,753 2,060

Factory stall is between 2100-2400. If you got your stall to where your motor makes power you might feel it take off better cause its getting into the power band quicker. Deppending on the TipIn settings on the converter, it will unlock and flare to get you back into the power band. Your larger turbo may need a higher stall. So if you got a converter that actually stalls where it needs to be then it will feel faster.

When we sent the ATS 5-star back to them. They told us it was the worst destruction they ever saw. Looked like we had cut it open and media blasted it. So we question how they dyno them at 700hp. I have ordered the suncoast kits before. But have decided to make my own kit since you still have to order a major gasket kit since it doesn't come with the suncoast one.

I have been using a converter from a no name shop that has held up very well in f-450s and 550s loaded out at 40k lbs. The guy stands behind it and I like the price.
 
I'm talking about my truck before we upgraded everything. Today, is a different story. We are switching things to help us sled pull (much higher stall), not necessarly making them better for daily driving (o-well).

You should really try a sun coast converter. They do things a little different than most with their stators and it makes a huge difference.
 
hpprose said:
So, what do I feel if it has nothing to do with it? They didn't change the gearing.

What transmission and converter are you running and have you run?
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You are feeling a more efficient converter. It is transferring more power to the input shaft from the motor. Any good aftermarket converter should be able to improve the efficiency. It usually comes from the stator design.

So yes a converter can make an increase of 50hp down low in the rpm band before the converter locks. Once the converter locks you shouldn't see a power gain unless your stocker was slipping. It usually takes about 30-40hp to feel in in the sotp and that is why you feel it.
 
Fast-6.0 said:
You are feeling a more efficient converter. It is transferring more power to the input shaft from the motor. Any good aftermarket converter should be able to improve the efficiency. It usually comes from the stator design.

So yes a converter can make an increase of 50hp down low in the rpm band before the converter locks. Once the converter locks you shouldn't see a power gain unless your stocker was slipping. It usually takes about 30-40hp to feel in in the sotp and that is why you feel it.
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So back to the original question:

Santa Gertrudis said:
Will I notice a difference at all?
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Yes, you will notice a difference.
 
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