Borg Warner test the BATMOWHEEL

With them doing the work and operating the dyno that takes out most of the variables wouldn't it. Im not defending or supporting the batmo (out of my budget anyways) but the truck with the biggest dyno #s doesn't always win on the track so does the compressor map set in stone which is better?
 
... i never did understand how the BATMO was being claimed as such a much better compressor design.

this is interesting.
 
Diesel Tech said:
A race, pull and a dyno competition I understand the entry fee. This is neither of those. This is an undefined test that allows someone other than the truck owner to work on, tune and beat it on the dyno with no set rules. Say the person whoever it maybe puts the turbo on, tunes it up and then blows the engine to pieces....... who's going to cover it? Who fault is it?

So what it really is, is a fact finding mission for Bullseye under the cover of a competition.
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If the truck blows up then it's the owners fault for participating. How many people go back on scheid when they pop a turbo pulling at sdx?

Sure there is a marketing scheme behind it, as with all shop sponsored events. Testing? No.... It's a challenge just like it reads. If you think your turbo can beat the batmo and your willing to put it to the test to win some cash then so be it.

I will bet that ED will have a slew of trucks, as with fleece and other shops that build turbos and do not endorse the batmowheel.

This has turned from a conversation on a product to a bashfest.
 
The problem that I see is there is no back to back testing being run. They want to be able to CHANGE things outside of the compressor wheel, which is what this fact finding mission is supposed to be. If your going to test it(batmo), then that is what you test. You do not change the tuneup, change the compressor housing and then get to pick what area of the results you want to look at!

The whole thing is a joke with no real set rules and no set test procedure to follow on all trucks. The $10K number is put there to try impress everyone and coverup what is really going on. The wheel (Batmo) came up short in a real test with real test procedures and they (Bullseye) got butt hurt. So now they want another shot at showing that there compressor wheel is better. Thats all well and good but this isn't how you do it.
 
chris lang said:
With them doing the work and operating the dyno that takes out most of the variables wouldn't it. Im not defending or supporting the batmo (out of my budget anyways) but the truck with the biggest dyno #s doesn't always win on the track so does the compressor map set in stone which is better?
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There have been more than a handful of reports that trucks changing turbos have picked up time in the 1/4 without change in size of the turbo. Aron picked up .2 in the 1/4 with a compressor wheel and housing swap.

What about reports of quicker spool and lower egt.....that's a real world test. Granted I can't tell when something spools 100rpm faster but people rave about that **** all the time. Does this warrant the price maybe not, but those 1/4 mile time enhancements do in my opinion.
 
The only change is going to be the compressor wheel and housing, which is what the batmo controversy is over.

If they see room to turn up the tune with the batmo as compared to the turbo that the truck came in on why not? It just shows that the batmo can potentially support hotter tuning.... If you had room to grow with a new charger wouldn't you adjust tuning?
 
rollincoalCTD said:
If the truck blows up then it's the owners fault for participating. How many people go back on scheid when they pop a turbo pulling at sdx?

Sure there is a marketing scheme behind it, as with all shop sponsored events. Testing? No.... It's a challenge just like it reads. If you think your turbo can beat the batmo and your willing to put it to the test to win some cash then so be it.

I will bet that ED will have a slew of trucks, as with fleece and other shops that build turbos and do not endorse the batmowheel.

This has turned from a conversation on a product to a bashfest.
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When you take your truck to RACE at Scheid's SDX pull ,YOU are the one. Here you are not in control of what is going on. Someone else is changing the turbo out, changing the tuning and then picking the part of the results they want, NOT all of it.

That would be like saying you pulled to 350' at scheid's sdx but you lost to someone who only pulled 100' because they got to 100' quicker than you did.

Like I have said all along, it's a marketing scam with all the cards being held by one side with no real rules.
 
rollincoalCTD said:
The only change is going to be the compressor wheel and housing, which is what the batmo controversy is over.

If they see room to turn up the tune with the batmo as compared to the turbo that the truck came in on why not? It just shows that the batmo can potentially support hotter tuning.... If you had room to grow with a new charger wouldn't you adjust tuning?
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Not what the rules said! They are going to change out the CHRA which can include a different turbine wheel along with other clearance changes. I can tell you for a fact that you can improve just about any production turbo by properly adjusting the clearances. As much as 3 -5% gains with nothing more than clearance changes.

This is not a test of one versus the other, it's pure marketing hype the way it is currently setup.
 
So what, it wouldn't be a valid test for me to go dyno my batmo s472 vs a box unit s472, and then do drag strip testing to back it up? Grnted it wouldnt be the same day but dyno runs would be the same day and track testing the same day.
 
Diesel Tech said:
The problem that I see is there is no back to back testing being run. They want to be able to CHANGE things outside of the compressor wheel, which is what this fact finding mission is supposed to be. If your going to test it(batmo), then that is what you test. You do not change the tuneup, change the compressor housing and then get to pick what area of the results you want to look at!

The whole thing is a joke with no real set rules and no set test procedure to follow on all trucks. The $10K number is put there to try impress everyone and coverup what is really going on. The wheel (Batmo) came up short in a real test with real test procedures and they (Bullseye) got butt hurt. So now they want another shot at showing that there compressor wheel is better. Thats all well and good but this isn't how you do it.
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I agree 100% the cat is out of the bag HAHAHAHA
 
rollincoalCTD said:
So what, it wouldn't be a valid test for me to go dyno my batmo s472 vs a box unit s472, and then do drag strip testing to back it up? Grnted it wouldnt be the same day but dyno runs would be the same day and track testing the same day.
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Sure you can go do whatever you want but if what you are after is to test one versus the other you need to control it better than just bolting one turbo on, then a different turbo on. Lot's of parts in the turbo and they can and DO make a difference. So if you setup a s472 and check all the clearances, then setup the Batmo wheel on the same CHRA and set the clearance the same then you would have a part test. You also need to control the dyno or at least average several runs to get meaningful data. I have personally watch dyno operators run the same setup and get various results on three consecutive runs with NO changes! It's easy to do on a chassis dyno when things are not controlled well.

As soon as you start changing anything other then the one part under test the results are meaningless. It is very fair to say it made the same power but had 100 degree cooler EGT but anyone who knows much about a diesel should know that as soon as you fool around with the fuel all bets are off!
 
Diesel Tech said:
Not what the rules said! They are going to change out the CHRA which can include a different turbine wheel along with other clearance changes. I can tell you for a fact that you can improve just about any production turbo by properly adjusting the clearances. As much as 3 -5% gains with nothing more than clearance changes.

This is not a test of one versus the other, it's pure marketing hype the way it is currently setup.
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You completely ignored the part of his post that said all I changed was the wheel and cover. Why doesn't someone email bullseye and get more info on the so called "competition"?
 
Funny watching our trucks run, they are so inconsistent that the times they run differ from pass to pass.
 
Acorn 616 said:
You completely ignored the part of his post that said all I changed was the wheel and cover. Why doesn't someone email bullseye and get more info on the so called "competition"?
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What post you talking about?? He said for a test if he used his Batmo S472 TURBO and changed it our for a BOX UNIT S472. That sure sounds to me as changing the turbo's out, Not just a compressor wheel. The whole deal is a joke and so full of holes in the rules, testing and setup there is no way it's going to be anything other than marketing hype.
 
TMONEYDIESEL said:
Funny watching our trucks run, they are so inconsistent that the times they run differ from pass to pass.
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You mean a 10hp gain on a different dyno 6 months later doesn't mean anything? :D

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A consistent truck at the drag strip could do a more controlled test than what is proposed in this challenge simply by swapping compressor wheel and cover on back to back runs. Any gain in MPH shows a clear average horsepower advantage. Gain in 1/8th mile ET with similar 60' time without increased MPH shows a clear spool-up advantage but equal average horsepower through the swept rpm ranges of the motor during the race. A faster 1/8th MPH but slower overall MPH could show a spool-up and mid-range HP advantage with less upper rpm HP.

The reason I love the track; MPH is a really consistent measuring tool for average "useable" HP.
 
Still to many variables. Tests should be done on an engine dyno which is computer controlled and takes out all human error. Even though a computer can still have variation it will hold the engine at the same rpm and sweep it at roughly the exact same speed. Way more accurate a comparison.
 
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