Fuel Economy cam updates

Got the cam in today. I need to do the final valve adjustment tomorrow. Got side tracked by the wife, she broke the back door knob and the door wouldn't open. Go figure. I will be able to give some feedback tomorrow. I could tell a difference on the initial drive but didn't want to push it until I get the last valve adjustment done.
 
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Just 2 more hours. :D Took three different logs last night. Time to get diry. :evil Once I get little girl up and dressed and lunch made and get her to school...it is party time at Outlaw Diesel!
 
Turbo light's off a little slower than the 178/208 but when it does it is very quick to max boost. The 178/208 was quick but very linear. The 188/208 also pulls good all the way up to 3100 or so RPM. Kinda hard to watch everything with your foot in it. So, I lost a little bit on the bottom and and gained a good bit on the top. It was 90 deg here today when I did the test and at WOT EGT's went to 1350. I feel that this was mainly do the ambient temp which caused the EGT's to be higher than 1200 and the new 80hp stix. I will get some mileage numbers next week.
 
wlincoln said:
Jory you ladies get anything done after I left?
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Yip. We didn't get the oil pan gasket put on, but managed to get the cam in and all buttoned up before quittin' time. I've only driven it home after the install but seat of pants agrees with Spooler. Once that SOB hits...it goes to the top fast. It does seem to pull harder to a higher RPM.

I'm working on the 178-208 plots right now. I'll get the 188-208 plots taken next week when I'm home. I'm 175 miles from the truck for the weekend. :(

One thing I did notice when tearing down the motor this time....my drive pressure gauge had the nut that holds the copper line to it left lose. The copper line had blown out of the sensor. So, my appologies, Zach, but the drive pressure plots for the 178 are schidtt.

Once I get the 188 logged, I'll lay that info over the 178 info and be able to tell you what gained and what lost and at what RPM. Prolly later next week.

I should have taken a picture of Trent moppin up my mess on the floor. :hehe: He'd make a good wife. :hehe:

BIG THANKS to OUTLAW DIESEL of Stillwater for the use of the shop and setting the valve lash!
 
4x4dually said:
Yip. We didn't get the oil pan gasket put on, but managed to get the cam in and all buttoned up before quittin' time. I've only driven it home after the install but seat of pants agrees with Spooler. Once that SOB hits...it goes to the top fast. It does seem to pull harder to a higher RPM.

I'm working on the 178-208 plots right now. I'll get the 188-208 plots taken next week when I'm home. I'm 175 miles from the truck for the weekend. :(

One thing I did notice when tearing down the motor this time....my drive pressure gauge had the nut that holds the copper line to it left lose. The copper line had blown out of the sensor. So, my appologies, Zach, but the drive pressure plots for the 178 are schidtt.

Once I get the 188 logged, I'll lay that info over the 178 info and be able to tell you what gained and what lost and at what RPM. Prolly later next week.

I should have taken a picture of Trent moppin up my mess on the floor. :hehe: He'd make a good wife. :hehe:

BIG THANKS to OUTLAW DIESEL of Stillwater for the use of the shop and setting the valve lash!
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Hey, i know im fairly new here so cut me some slack. Jory you pm'd me zacks number a week or so ago/ but i ended up having to do injectors first.....anyway still interested in this cam in the future. :blahblah1: Guess question is what yr truck you got,mods ect, as you post results to your cam swap. Also thanks spooler for posting your results as well. - Thankyou sir
 
cumminsrocks said:
Guess question is what yr truck you got,mods ect, as you post results to your cam swap.
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Here are the mods and the dyno chart BEFORE the swap with the STOCK cam. I would really like to find the $$ to hit the dyno again, the same exact dyno, and see how close to 500 this cam will push me. I'd imagine by feel, the lower end will grant me the four digit torque numbers. I'll probably aquire the Tyler Syndrome and hit 499.8 hp. :hehe:

2002 Dodge 4x4 Quad cab dually
NV5600
Edge Juice with Attitude
DDP 100 injectors
FASS Platinum 95 LP
AFE stage II intake
AFE bladerunner intake horn
II PS 62/65/14 turbo
4" downpipe to 5" exhaust w/ FTE Resonator

Dyno sheet. 450hp/972tq

Dyno05-03-08b.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg-1SrLNDQI&feature=youtu.be

I don't have head studs, just the stockers with 175,000 miles on them. I just replaced my first head gasket at 168,000 miles. Still ran fine, just started making my coolant into mud. ;)

Keep in mind, I would imagine my truck is in the lower 50% of "fast trucks" on this website, but since you asked, that is what I have. I built mine to pull trailers. She does it with a smile. Normally between 20K and 30K gross and never looks back. :Cheer:
 
Did a quick log this morning in 5th and 6th gear when I had a space in traffic. You can tell I came up on a bit of a hill as the RPMs and EGTs suffered at the top of 6th gear. I'll try to have comparable charts to the ones I took with the other cam maybe tomorrow, but here's what it is doing without comparison numbers.

I really need to get this wastegate tuned. The drive pressure is getting higher and floppin' that gate open and shut looks like even worse now.

RPM vs Pressures

RPMvsPressures.jpg


EGT vs Pressures

EGTvsPressures.jpg
 
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Fuel mileage run for me is tomorrow. We'll see what happens. Preliminary numbers look good. Had to go do my taxes and stuff not far from work and also a run to town. 192 miles total. Used approx 8 gallons= 24 mpg.... We'll see if I can duplicate tomorrow. Got my fingers crossed.
 
Here's the completed comparison study on the the 178 vs 188 cams. I wish to hell I could have had my logger figured out before I pulled the stocker and had good stock cam results to put on these charts too, but I don't. There is not a whole lot of difference in these two but I'd have to say I am considering putting the 178 back in. :D It lights one second faster and has lower EGT's. It would be better suited for towing which is what I'm looking for. The 188 does boost higher and holds it longer but at the cost of a 1 second delay. At least that is how I see it.

As scientific as I could make it, I started as close to 1500 rpm as I could in the middle of the bridge and logged until I crossed the next mile section. It starts out flat and has a slight hill at the end. Both runs came out with almost the exact same number of logged points and the number all started pretty much right on each other so I'm pretty confident when I lay them on top of each other, they give a pretty good story in comparison to each other.

Here, chew on it yourself. :D

Plot178vs188RPM.jpg


Plot178vs188Boost.jpg


Plot178vs188Drive.jpg


Plot178vs188EGT.jpg


Plot178vs188RPMandBoost.jpg




178 Pros:

Lower EGTs (50.4F)
Lights Faster (Crosses 25psi .98s fater)
Higher RPM (68)
Reduced Drive Pressure (5.3psi)

As you can see....not a whole lot of difference here. These numbers are tiny in the whole scheme of things.
 
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I think workin' on tuning my wastegate to reduce that drive pressure may help in the large scheme of things to reduce EGTs.
 
This is going back the other way from the same middle of the bridge to my neighbors driveway, uphill, long decent hill, with the cruise control set on 75 mph.

Plot178vs188BoostandRPMCruise.jpg


Plot178vs188BoostandEGTCruise.jpg


188 turns lower RPM with lower EGT and lower Boost. So it looks like on normal driving (not WOT) the 188 has the advantage.
 
Damn good info Jory! I think you should throw the stock cam in just to see the comparison all together. What's another cam swap eh?
 
Spooler said:
Here are the pre test from before.

Today I ran 69mph at 2100rpm. Boost was 2-3 psi. EGT's were 650. I drove the same route. Drove 110.9 miles mostly interstate and back. Burned 5.98 gallons of diesel.
MPG= 18.5

Here are today's after test.
Today I ran 69mph at 2100rpm. Boost was 2 psi. EGT's were 650. I drove the same route. Drove 110.9 miles mostly interstate and back. Burned 5.76 gallons of diesel.
MPG= 19.25
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Here are my results at 69mph. Boost was 1-2 psi. EGT's were 600. I drove the same route but had to run a short trip at lunch. Drove 114.2 miles and burned 5.8 gallons.

MPG= 19.68

The last trip I did had this route at 69mph plus some 2 lane black top 58 mph driving. Drove 192 miles and burned 8.2 gallons of fuel.

MPG= 23.41

The old saying slow down to improve your mpg....LOL
 
looking at all of your graphs, it looks to me that the 188 should give you slightly better fuel economy over the 178. Your boost pressures are lower due to less restriction at filling the cylinder and exhaust is cooler due to more air for lower combustion temps. The engine doesn't work as hard (pumping) for a given power in your cruise rpms. If you had a vgt turbo you could possibly make up for the one second slower spool.

what do you think?
 
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Just got back from getting hay. The new cam tows like a champ. For my truck the 188/208 is better than the 178/208 towing.
 
I just got my 188/208 yesterday, it might be a few more weeks before install. Can't wait to see if it helps lite my 66 faster. Also picked up Hamilton 110 springs.
 
Spooler said:
Just got back from getting hay. The new cam tows like a champ. For my truck the 188/208 is better than the 178/208 towing.
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That is one thing I haven't done yet, drag out the trailer and go for a spin. It has rained off and on the last couple days...plus all the dayum tornadoes. We've been on lock down keepin' an eye on the weather. I should be able to break the trailer out and take a drive in the next few weeks. Getting cattle shipped in on Wed, little girls birthday is Wed, party is Sun...busy as heck.

Sleeper...NO...I'll never run another stock cam as long as I live....:D I'm sure there are tons of other trucks to get stock cam data from besides me putting one back in. bif
 
4x4dually said:
That is one thing I haven't done yet, drag out the trailer and go for a spin. It has rained off and on the last couple days...plus all the dayum tornadoes. We've been on lock down keepin' an eye on the weather. I should be able to break the trailer out and take a drive in the next few weeks. Getting cattle shipped in on Wed, little girls birthday is Wed, party is Sun...busy as heck.

Sleeper...NO...I'll never run another stock cam as long as I live....:D I'm sure there are tons of other trucks to get stock cam data from besides me putting one back in. bif
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With the new stix, I think I need to tweak my turbo choice some. I need more cruising boost and top end air. I do like my combo, I just think it could be better. Looking hard at a custom built 63/68/14 from ED.


Stock cam??? What's that, I won't run one again.
 
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