SSR New Release Info and Results Thread...

the smarty dosnt seem to go any higher then 24 k just gets it there faster at least on my truck that is i set it to 45 to see if i could help out with the rail dip at lower rpms but it dosnt seem help seems like its in the softwear
 
reverse engineering? so changing the timing is something new?

I am not trying to bash anyone or their product... but I most certainly am calling them out! timing melts pistons, its more dangerous to have a bunch of "seat of the pants" guys "tuning" their trucks and then running hard, or spraying, and causing a meltdown because their a$$ told them it "felt" good

"if tuning for the dyno leave as is, when racing turn it down 2-4 points" I say again WTF!!! what if I want to spray?

a Dyno is required for tuning per the instructions but most guys with access to or are willing to pay for the roll time to tune know alot more about tuning than the SSR gives them credit for. SSR is floating between demographics, the end user---and the pro.

p.s. we handle 7 different full parameter ECM tuning softwares at our shop and NONE of them are this vague. could you imagine trying to write your own v.e. tables with someones made up "range" of timing.

I dont think its that much to ask for.
 
Umm they all reversed engineered the oem program. don't think they are paying Chrysler royalties does anyone? :)
 
STR8-6 said:
reverse engineering? so changing the timing is something new?

I am not trying to bash anyone or their product... but I most certainly am calling them out! timing melts pistons, its more dangerous to have a bunch of "seat of the pants" guys "tuning" their trucks and then running hard, or spraying, and causing a meltdown because their a$$ told them it "felt" good

"if tuning for the dyno leave as is, when racing turn it down 2-4 points" I say again WTF!!! what if I want to spray?

a Dyno is required for tuning per the instructions but most guys with access to or are willing to pay for the roll time to tune know alot more about tuning than the SSR gives them credit for. SSR is floating between demographics, the end user---and the pro.

p.s. we handle 7 different full parameter ECM tuning softwares at our shop and NONE of them are this vague. could you imagine trying to write your own v.e. tables with someones made up "range" of timing.

I dont think its that much to ask for.
Click to expand...

Like I said, sugar and **** yields different results.

I think I explained how you need to set up the dyno to get correct results right?

What you're also talking about using are things like MSD Digital 7's and 8's, which have NO TUNE from the factory, BUT you have full visibility of all the parameters.

Trust me I know what's visible on those boxes. We run an MSD Digital 7 and an AMS 1000 boost controller on the Chevelle, so I'm pretty well versed at tuning parameters and how knowing what the values are can do. We spend more time at the track on the Fridays and Sundays tweaking parameters and curves on other guys cars than we spend running our own crap.

You guys experience is in tuning gas motors. Show me 7 full parameter tuners for these motors. You don't have them, you have ONE on the market right now and it's the best thing we've had yet.

Can things be made better? Sure as hell can. But it's testing, honest feedback and recommendations to the manufacturer that leads to product advancement, not idle threats. That's why I post settings, setups, the real world results. THAT is what yields advancement and development.....not some crying ass crap.


But calling out one of the most respected guys in this market and telling him you're going to use a competitors product to reverse engineer his tables....well, yeah, good luck with that chief.

It's stuff like that keeps most of the manufacturers from even getting on most of the forums.....you'll ALWAYS have someone that will criticize a product and bash the manufacturer because they didn't do cheetah flips and monkey stomps to make them happy. It's part of the game and you'll NEVER make EVERYONE happy.....even when you've provided the biggest advancement in Cummins tuning in a decade.

I tell ya what, call Edge, DiabloSport, TST, or any of the other manufacturers and see if they give you their tables. Let me know how that goes.

It's like the sign I have in the shop, "Labor rate is based on customer attitude. Every time you yell at us for something we didn't break, it goes up $10 an hour"

Good luck.
 
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I went on a longer and faster trip this morning to the datacenter, about 77 miles one way, all bout 3 miles are highway.

There's something funky with 2200rpm. No matter the setting, I get a tiny bit of rattle. Doesn't' seem to work against performance it's so slight, you can't feel it, just hear it. for a moment.

Also, turning the torque down to stock (and raising the rail and duration...) didn't have any effect on clearing up the cruise control. Even at 85mph cruise set on flat ground it has a "pulse". Exactly like a bad driver that can't keep their foot steady on the throttle, just more consistently pulsing.

The drone doesn't mostly go away at 85 with the straight pipe back on. It gets worse! LOL I honestly do not recall if I put the FTE on pre or post 66mm charger. Possibly not a smarty problem ;-)

Passing power is so nice now. just a slight haze in the bright morning sun when on the throttle. zero cruising haze. EGT's at 85 are around 900. Didn't get a good feeling to run a WOT to 3800rpm this morning, just took it easy. Maybe on the way home if traffic's virtually not there.
 
Jason, I didn't get rid of those little peaks an bumps in the LL areas until I came up higher on the timing and duration.

Just the difference between a duration of 26 and 28 smoothed out 2 small hiccups in the chart and smoothed the whole curve below 2800 - 3000 RPM's.

It's tough to weed it out on the road becuase nothing's repeatable and verifying whats going on is almost impossible because you can't watch everything at once.
 
It's like the sign I have in the shop, "Labor rate is based on customer attitude. Every time you yell at us for something we didn't break, it goes up $10 an hour"
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I like that idea...LOL

I FINALLY got a long weekend and am going to begin with my SSR this weekend on my 05 this weekend.I spent the last couple days looking over both the threads on here and CF seeing what everyone has used for starting points and will try and use a truck thats built close to mine.

I have seen in both threads where guys are removing their MP8's with the SSR.Would this be a wise idea before I start or just keep it turned off like I do for daily driving purposes?.

From what I have read so far if this can control the low end smoke better and get these two big chargers going a bit faster it will be worth my while.I really do like the way the truck runs with the TNT-R and am hoping I didn't make a mistake with the SSR.......Andy
 
Hammer said:
I really do like the way the truck runs with the TNT-R and am hoping I didn't make a mistake with the SSR.......Andy
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat. Me, my TNTr & MP-8 are all so happy together. I've had two SSR's in hand here that I sold before putting on my truck.
I am resistant to change. It's a sickness I think.
 
You are asking for info they will NEVER share, I dont know why, but they wont. Many have tried.

I will, however, have this info shortly. When we get efi live piped in it will be able to tell us atleast the timing values anyway. To bad the manufacturer cant take a couple of seconds to type.

I too have unlimited access to our Dyno but it would be nice to cut off some of the time.
Click to expand...

As a foreword to help the "general public" understand what is being said in the above quote.

For those who don't know exactly who I am, let me start with saying I am the owner of MADS. I am the brain, the heart and the soul behind the downloaders known as Smarty.

I spend 90% of my time working on the performance software's. Be that on the dyno, on the road or simply tinkering with what could work or what will not.

What does it take to write a performance software?
Take the truck onto the dyno, modify a part of the software, see / IF / what / when / that modification changes something (or maybe it does not change anything at all) . Time after time, test after test, then blend all this into a file that actually performs This is the core business that I'm doing.

To figure out all the different parameters such as ( but not limited to ) injection timing; injection duration; rail pressure; boost pressure... the list is long... then the various limiting factors come into the game. Well, without annoying you too much with details, that research work takes years. As an example, to develop the 6.7L software's I've done two thousand dyno runs and something like 30.000 miles testing and refining on the road.
That was to develop the 6.7L software from scratch.

For the SSR, although I already had a rather good knowledge about the 5.9L software it has taken me still over one thousand six hundred dyno runs to get to the first software release to the public. The SSR has been beta tested for over one year. I have given away something like a hundred free beta units. All this to get the broadest user feedback possible in order to be able to adapt to the broadest possible combination of engine modifications.

How much money do I spend in the research and development?
I would really prefer to not think about it since it makes me mad at myself every time we put the costs onto the paper.

The "dyno" with all it's related costs like fuel, tires, broken engine parts, turbo's and what not came up for the year 2010 as USD 310.000,00. Now you can start to add all the other costs that it takes to run a company and imagine what the number becomes by the end of the year.

Do I make money out of the R&D? You bet! Am I right to pretend to make a living out of my company for me, my family and my employee's families ?
You can bet on that one too!

Now what the quote with which I have started this MSG is saying is basically this: I take my EFI live, copy the ECM, compare that software to a stock one and find out the EASY way what's been modified. The scope of EFI is then to transfer this "knowledge" to the next truck. Right?

Let me ask you all this: If you were in my shoes, would YOU share the knowledge you've worked hard for? Would you agree to have someone simply "copy" your knowledge?

That's what makes me mad about EFI Live. In fact, if you look at the statement(s) in their advertising it's all about: lookie here how bad the others look and how smooth we are. Sorry, how did they get the stuff from the "others"? Their thread in this forum, MSG # 1 of the thread starter, the exact same thing.... One question comes to my mind, where are the ethics they like to brag so much about?

Maybe it's just a sign of the times and I'm old...
My mom told me when I was a little guy that when you take something without the permission of the owner it's stealing. It's as simple as that.
I learned this lesson the hard way when a farmer caught me on his cherry tree and called mom... Looks like some folks never have learned such a lesson.

Share my knowledge? Cut YOU off some time??? C'mon!

OK folks, I have to quit this now because I'm SO upset that in another little while I'll say things that would have to be censored.

Made my point?

Thanks for reading.

Marco
 
Snedge said:
I'm in the same boat. Me, my TNTr & MP-8 are all so happy together. I've had two SSR's in hand here that I sold before putting on my truck.
I am resistant to change. It's a sickness I think.
Click to expand...
Just do it! Lol. In less than a day you will be able to find the near equivalent to what you run on tnt-r, with way less smoke. That alone has made going to ssr worth it. I can finally use the power in town without fear of blacking out roads.


Sent from my DROIDX
 
Marco said:
As a foreword to help the "general public" understand what is being said in the above quote.

For those who don't know exactly who I am, let me start with saying I am the owner of MADS. I am the brain, the heart and the soul behind the downloaders known as Smarty.

I spend 90% of my time working on the performance software's. Be that on the dyno, on the road or simply tinkering with what could work or what will not.

What does it take to write a performance software?
Take the truck onto the dyno, modify a part of the software, see / IF / what / when / that modification changes something (or maybe it does not change anything at all) . Time after time, test after test, then blend all this into a file that actually performs This is the core business that I'm doing.

To figure out all the different parameters such as ( but not limited to ) injection timing; injection duration; rail pressure; boost pressure... the list is long... then the various limiting factors come into the game. Well, without annoying you too much with details, that research work takes years. As an example, to develop the 6.7L software's I've done two thousand dyno runs and something like 30.000 miles testing and refining on the road.
That was to develop the 6.7L software from scratch.

For the SSR, although I already had a rather good knowledge about the 5.9L software it has taken me still over one thousand six hundred dyno runs to get to the first software release to the public. The SSR has been beta tested for over one year. I have given away something like a hundred free beta units. All this to get the broadest user feedback possible in order to be able to adapt to the broadest possible combination of engine modifications.

How much money do I spend in the research and development?
I would really prefer to not think about it since it makes me mad at myself every time we put the costs onto the paper.

The "dyno" with all it's related costs like fuel, tires, broken engine parts, turbo's and what not came up for the year 2010 as USD 310.000,00. Now you can start to add all the other costs that it takes to run a company and imagine what the number becomes by the end of the year.

Do I make money out of the R&D? You bet! Am I right to pretend to make a living out of my company for me, my family and my employee's families ?
You can bet on that one too!

Now what the quote with which I have started this MSG is saying is basically this: I take my EFI live, copy the ECM, compare that software to a stock one and find out the EASY way what's been modified. The scope of EFI is then to transfer this "knowledge" to the next truck. Right?

Let me ask you all this: If you were in my shoes, would YOU share the knowledge you've worked hard for? Would you agree to have someone simply "copy" your knowledge?

That's what makes me mad about EFI Live. In fact, if you look at the statement(s) in their advertising it's all about: lookie here how bad the others look and how smooth we are. Sorry, how did they get the stuff from the "others"? Their thread in this forum, MSG # 1 of the thread starter, the exact same thing.... One question comes to my mind, where are the ethics they like to brag so much about?

Maybe it's just a sign of the times and I'm old...
My mom told me when I was a little guy that when you take something without the permission of the owner it's stealing. It's as simple as that.
I learned this lesson the hard way when a farmer caught me on his cherry tree and called mom... Looks like some folks never have learned such a lesson.

Share my knowledge? Cut YOU off some time??? C'mon!

OK folks, I have to quit this now because I'm SO upset that in another little while I'll say things that would have to be censored.

Made my point?

Thanks for reading.

Marco
Click to expand...

All of this should go without saying:Cheer:
:clap:
 
Marco, Having gotten to know you, speak with you, and watch you conduct yourself as a business owner, It's a Real Shame that you don't get paid for having more "Ethics" than most everyone out there..

If you could turn your "Ethics" into $$$, You would be a Bizzillionaire!!

You Sir are in inspiration!


Thank you for everything you've done for All of us in the diesel world!!

Bravo!!
 
Big Swole said:
Marco, Having gotten to know you, speak with you, and watch you conduct yourself as a business owner, It's a Real Shame that you don't get paid for having more "Ethics" than most everyone out there..

If you could turn your "Ethics" into $$$, You would be a Bizzillionaire!!

You Sir are in inspiration!


Thank you for everything you've done for All of us in the diesel world!!

Bravo!!
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Couldn't have said it better.

Dave, the loops are on me.

:Cheer:
 
I respect Marco for even taking the time to get on these forums and observe and comment on these subjects. Like most end users i want what is best for my truck and the mods that i chose.
good luck all ssr users
 
Marco,

I agree with your approach as far as software development, time effort and trade secrets and all that. I've been there done that, still do that today to a point (not software, but systems) but for an employer. When we (as a company) spend $1,000,000 on a piece of hardware and software (and we do, no joke, it's insane for a little company that we are), if I have a question about how something works, I get that answer. I've had pushed issues as far as getting the guys in the back rooms that develop the hardware to chime in. And no, an NDA is not in affect for this kinda info.

What some of these guys are asking, like where is the max that this tune will peak with timing can't be all that secret and sensitive you'll loose money. In fact being slightly more open I think you'll attract the folks that are on the edge of EFI because it's easier and they can be more lazy and still have a good running truck with less fear about melting things.

-----------------------------------

Playing the Devils advocate here:

The one thing I have to question is your last line there:

My mom told me when I was a little guy that when you take something without the permission of the owner it's stealing. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...

Now, I'm sure you can say yes or no to this I hope.

Did you, Marco of MADS electronics officially license the software in the ECU from the manufacture?

My assumption here is No. No you did not. Kind of hypocritical don't you think? Chrysler engineers put YEARS into their work too....

If you did, by all means, I apologize in advanced. But it's my understanding Ford, GM and Chrysler will not give out the software. This is why the box manufactures reverse engineer things. EFI Live is just a tool for reverse engineering and you're faulting them for building a tool that does the exact same thing you did, pulling data out of the ECM that someone else wrote to modify and call your own.

I'm kinda sorry, but I'm not for bringing this up. I feel most don't see the entire picture... :)
 
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Cummin-a-long said:
Jason, I didn't get rid of those little peaks an bumps in the LL areas until I came up higher on the timing and duration.

Just the difference between a duration of 26 and 28 smoothed out 2 small hiccups in the chart and smoothed the whole curve below 2800 - 3000 RPM's.

It's tough to weed it out on the road becuase nothing's repeatable and verifying whats going on is almost impossible because you can't watch everything at once.
Click to expand...

hmm, running LLD at 30 now, I might try lowering it a notch on the way home. It runs so well with out cruise tho.
 
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