U D C

My mistake, I was on Default timing on SW7 and had good power, but want to tune for earlier spool and less pre boost smoke.

I will try what you posted and report back.

Not all that big timing bump down low on the OEM tune is bad. I got rid of mine below 1400 rpms, and carried the bump out to about 2400.. but it's not nearly as high. When I run that much, stock, timing down low with my mods my motor is NOISY the timing rattle is insane.

A little higher timing in the cruise rpms and loads is good for economy and shouldn't effect spool, you then want to back the timing off as you come out of the cruise loads to get the exhaust flow up for spooling, and then bring the timing back on as you add fuel.

If you increase rail pressure in a given cell the timing can actually be slightly retarded in the same timing cell as the increase rail pressure makes for a shorter pulse width (give the duration hasn't changed). Same thing dropping rail pressure needs a slight advance on timing.

This is why I wouldn't change all 3 tables at once. Pick a table and modify it. Personally I would do the following.

0) Tq management to stock for tuning
1) Timing
2) Rail Pressure
3) Timing
4) Repeat 2&3 as necessary
5) Duration
6) Timing
7) Tq management to where you want it (personally I run it lower than stock in the first two columns, then a smooth line to about 15% above stock and it's very smooth)

That's a general outline, but the order that I think makes for the quickest and smoothest tuning. That way when you make 1 change you know what it did, not 3 changes and you don't know what screwed up how the truck runs.

As far as WG, if you have an aftermarket turbo set it to the max. If your running the stock turbo I would set the cells to 35-38 to prevent turbo overspeed and excessive backpressure.

Is there a way to view the tables for SW7 TM0 TQ2 RP2 WG off?
Or can we only see the stock table and the 3 samples?

There isn't, you just have to guess but once you get a few tunes built and tested it won't matter.
 
Not all that big timing bump down low on the OEM tune is bad. I got rid of mine below 1400 rpms, and carried the bump out to about 2400.. but it's not nearly as high. When I run that much, stock, timing down low with my mods my motor is NOISY the timing rattle is insane.

A little higher timing in the cruise rpms and loads is good for economy and shouldn't effect spool, you then want to back the timing off as you come out of the cruise loads to get the exhaust flow up for spooling, and then bring the timing back on as you add fuel.

If you increase rail pressure in a given cell the timing can actually be slightly retarded in the same timing cell as the increase rail pressure makes for a shorter pulse width (give the duration hasn't changed). Same thing dropping rail pressure needs a slight advance on timing.

This is why I wouldn't change all 3 tables at once. Pick a table and modify it. Personally I would do the following.

0) Tq management to stock for tuning
1) Timing
2) Rail Pressure
3) Timing
4) Repeat 2&3 as necessary
5) Duration
6) Timing
7) Tq management to where you want it (personally I run it lower than stock in the first two columns, then a smooth line to about 15% above stock and it's very smooth)

That's a general outline, but the order that I think makes for the quickest and smoothest tuning. That way when you make 1 change you know what it did, not 3 changes and you don't know what screwed up how the truck runs.

As far as WG, if you have an aftermarket turbo set it to the max. If your running the stock turbo I would set the cells to 35-38 to prevent turbo overspeed and excessive backpressure.



There isn't, you just have to guess but once you get a few tunes built and tested it won't matter.

Awesome info, thank you.
I am starting off by setting the WG to max since I have the FPE Holset Cheetah.
And adjusting only the timing for now. I loaded the sample 7 tables, and copied the timing of the comparison. Then I bumped the timing in the first few load tables up in the cruising rpm, and dropped the timing in the same rpm range but 31-50% load range. Then finally tried to transition to the higher timing of the high rpm and high load range.
Is this right on track?
I did notice that when mashing the throttle initially puffed a fair bit of smoke, but then cleaned up to a light haze once the turbo was lit. As a side note, I do have a manual trans.

TMandWGOnly.png
 
Awesome info, thank you.
I am starting off by setting the WG to max since I have the FPE Holset Cheetah.
And adjusting only the timing for now. I loaded the sample 7 tables, and copied the timing of the comparison. Then I bumped the timing in the first few load tables up in the cruising rpm, and dropped the timing in the same rpm range but 31-50% load range. Then finally tried to transition to the higher timing of the high rpm and high load range.
Is this right on track?
I did notice that when mashing the throttle initially puffed a fair bit of smoke, but then cleaned up to a light haze once the turbo was lit. As a side note, I do have a manual trans.

See how the timing is the same from 68.9% thru 100%? In a racing application that may be okay as they go from 20% to 100%, and don't spend much time between 70% and 90%, but if you tow I don't think flat timing is good. The pulse width at 70% is a lot shorter than WOT, so the effective timing is much greater, so at 70% load you will have higher piston temps, higher cylinder pressure, etc than at 100% load. Each load needs it's own timing. As pulse width increases timing must increase to keep the same relative (% before TDC and % after TDC) timing.

On my truck that high timing from 1000-1400 really is noisy. I dropped it way back. I don't have my Dongle with me, but I recall being around -3° at 12.6% load at 1000 rpms.

Generally speaking 1000-1400 (0-50% load) is spool region , this is the only place on my timing map I run less timing than the factory. Above 50% load here isn't obtained often, but I generally advance from 50% to WOT a few degrees. 1600-2400 0-30% is the cruise region, mainly up thru 25%, I use 25.1 as a transition and am completely out of the cruise timing at 31.4%. Now you are in the acceleration/spool/hill mode. I back the timing off to reduce piston temp, increase exhaust volume for turbo spooling, and still make good power. This is the hardest part to tune (32.4-100) because what works for spool may not be good for towing a trailer at 40% load for hours on end, so you have to mess with it to find the best spot. At these rpms the entire timing map can be used, especially if you tow. 2600-redline, this is the passing, racing, playing zone. My low load timing is not increased here (but how often are you 10-50% load in these rpms, this is the zone where you will be dumping fuel and need the power. Timing is critical because of piston speed, it's easy to go too far or too little. With stock duration/pressure I would stick to about 19° max at WOT/3200 and 22° max at WOT/3500.

One last thing, on the duration map Marco has rpms/load as the labels. That should be rail pressure and volume, as the duration map has nothing to do with rpms. The ECM uses rail pressure and desired fuel (load) to determine the pulse width. So that 100% 3600 rpm block can be applied at much less than 3600 rpms. This is needed if you create your own timing calculator.

IMHO it should look like this... Load on top, pressure on left.

Duration-1.jpg


So at 100% load and 23,206 (peak OEM rail pressure) the injector is open for 2005 micro seconds. The way a timing calculator works is you take that 2005 micro seconds, the deg/sec of the crank, and when you want to inject the fuel (say 50% before TDC/50% after TDC) and you get the timing needed. So at 2000 rpms it take 83us to go 1°. So 1002.5/83 is 12.07, or 12.1° of timing is what you need. At 3000 rpms it only takes 56us to go 1°, so you need 17.9° to get the same 50% of fuel injected BTDC.

Obviously the duration map is not all inclusive, so you will have to do the same extrapolation the ECM does if you want to calculate all your timing. You can calculate all the timing, some of it (I would work 100% load at a minimum so you know where you should max), or none of it...

I don't think you can create a mash it without smoke tune that is reasonable on UDC, simply because we don't have access to the boost/fuel limiter table. So the base tune may allow more fuel than we can burn smoke-free, and mashing will do that. But you can play with your torque management to get it there. I also found reducing the PoD to 85 really helped and didn't effect power at all. Even aggressive driving I am black smoke free (just a haze), but if I go from 20% to 100% throttle in an instant than I roll some serious coal.

Happy tuning....

Here is a timing map I made (and have severely altered) but it gives you a GENERAL idea of flow. Numbers are irrelevant without knowing pressure/duration.

UDC.jpg
 
Last edited:
John,

Thanks for the detailed info.. This is exactly what Iv'e been waiting to here from some body.. I have been practicing replicating your timing map (before I got the dongle) for some time now.. At least I can save my efforts now..

Great Info! :bow:
 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1353197574.702510.jpg
Have been on the computer with it for a couple hours now.


Sent from my F'n space phone
 
I did 585hp 1175tq on beans dyno today with stock injectors and CP3 and UDC custom tune.

Lavon
 
Can someone explain how to zoom in? I can't figure it out after reading the instructions..
 
I don't think you can zoom, it just scales to the size of the window for the 3D map.
 
I don't think you can zoom, it just scales to the size of the window for the 3D map.

Page 33, Par 8.6.3 of the Application guide show and icon to zoom into in 3D viewing..

I have a 24'' monitor but the map is only 1/5 the size.. I have tried everything I can think of to zoom in but, I don't see the icon on the software that is listed in the application guide..

Oh well, I'm done smoothing all the maps out for now.. Time for test driving for a week or so..
 
Okay, I'm stupid! I don't get it, guess your gonna have to draw me a picture on the zoom thing, lol..

I'm guessing here...try having the pointer on the 'zoom' icon and then right click....or actually click on the icon, then right click.
 
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