What is NHRDA's future for Pro Street?

[IdahoRob]

Because of how close in weight Pro Street and Super Street 2wd are (4500 and 5000lbs respectively) I can't see adding weight as a viable option, as the lines between the classes are already borderline blurred. I would be more in favor of dropping the weight to 3600lbs, as Pro Stock is still over 1000 lbs lighter at that point, and it would put a larger gap between Super Street and Pro Street, and still maintain a healthy gap between Pro Stock and Pro Street. The obvious downside to that is all the teams that already have purpose built Pro Street trucks would now be almost 1000lbs heavy and would need to put some big $$$ into their trucks in order to have them be competitive. However I do think this would give a home to some vehicles that have been built as very quick street vehicles (Rob's El Camino comes to mind first off) that are not cert'd and are too heavy to truly run at the top of Pro Stock.

Actually the Camino is cert'ed to 7.50 but will never see that as it is too heavy. I'd love to be in a class like that with the camino, but this takes away from the cool factor of full size stock appearing trucks that are currently in Pro Stock. Also would open the door for purpose built race car conversions running the weight and even at current levels would be dipping way under the 8.5 times. At least 3600 lbs can be cert'd to 7.50.

 

[DIESEL_POWER]

@160mph+ they are just a good 60' away from being quicker than 8.50.

Wade obviously didn't bother to read the thread, or he would have noted that adding weight was already suggested and rebutted with the fact that prostreet is already only 500lbs from 2wd super street.

I don't think anyone racing heads up is in favor of going slower, and moving up a class would require a huge cash outlay for a new chassis and safety equipment.

As far as petitioning the NHRA, I think that could be a viable solution, however it would only be productive with the full support of the NHRDA.

From what I can see there are as many pro street trucks being built as there are being sold off. That and if a truck is being sold whole it is likely going to be raced again. I hear a ton of this fuel costs and jobs being slow and parts being expensive, but the fuel races I was able to attend this year, (Mission and Edmonton) both had great turn outs.

I don't know that there is one right or easy answer, but it is still something that needs to be discussed as every year the parts and innovation build on the years passed and trucks get quicker and faster. I know for us personally in super street we have gone from 140mph to 152mph in the last three seasons. With more to come.

I see positives and negatives to moving to an 8.50 index, the positives being that it would open the doors to people building obscure, but quick street vehicles (rat rods, ford rangers, dodge daktota's ect...) and give them a class to compete in. The downside is without the heads up quickest truck regardless of time dimension we loose the die hard heads up guys, as well as we loose the innovation that has brought this class to be as quick and as fast as it is.

I implore all of you to keep coming up with new ideas and suggestions. I started this thread, but I have no vested interest in pro street other than I enjoy watching the class and having that many more people competing.

Your right i didnt read the whole thread. i was just throwing some ideas out there.

Your right there needs to be some thought put into this if more start running in the 8's, but lets face it, only 2-3 have run the # and only one has done it back to back...prolly not a big concern at this point, when 98% of the field is mid 9"s.

Besides 8.70's to 8.40's is another 300-400+HP away.

 

[GreenMeanie5.9]

Besides 8.70's to 8.40's is another 300-400+HP away.

this may be the only time I'm going to say this but I think that Wade is correct with this.statement and no motor/ transmission is going to hold that much more power with the weight we are limited to.

And the 4x4 trucks have no more weight to loose so.dropping the weight will only give the advantage to the 2wd trucks, even if you put limitations on the motors.

 

[Fahlin Racing]

As long as spectators and racers have a standard as far as acting and being professional and people come to watch, the sanctioning body WILL continue. If people take care of the tracks and anything around the track, the sport will live on and the diesel community, even though the black smoke rolls, won't get a bad rap and more tracks will not just see diesel racing as a way to draw people and make money but see it as a family event as well that is good entertainment. You can't just think about the speed of the trucks alone you must view the entire picture of things, 1/8th mile or 1/4mile.

 

[Runninlean]

this may be the only time I'm going to say this but I think that Wade is correct with this.statement and no motor/ transmission is going to hold that much more power with the weight we are limited to.

You keep saying that. They were saying that about PS just 3 seasons ago about running into the 8's. You have to remember anyone running mid 10's just 4 seasons ago could win the class just keeping it making rounds. Just because you feel that its your limitations does not make it so...

Lets be realistic only a handful of teams are flirting with this line and another handful who could win at any event. You have 10 to 12 actual teams in the class that could win on any given Saturday. PS and SS class's are really already beyond any of the rules NHRA created when it comes to MPH/ET. No one in the NHRA expected a 4500lbs truck going into the 9's let alone the 8's. Most the trucks in PS could never pass a true NHRA tech inspection. Heck NHRDA made huge strides in safety this year but they are still slack on some of the true NHRA requirements.

All that being said I am not sure what the answer is going to be. Lighten the class but keep the other rules (stock front frame rails and so on) is only going to benefit the big money teams as most of the trucks in the class would require major modifications to lose that much weight and some will never make the weight. I think its funny how so many people think that all the PS trucks are down to 4500 lbs. Plenty of them could still make SS weight minimums. Those guys would be left way behind. Then let me guess you say move back to SS? Not going to happen for guys who altered the stock frame to compete in PS. Adding weight is a horrible option running a 140+ mph in a 5000+lbs truck that only requires a 10 pt cage because of ET?

I won't be the one to say it but I have been thinking it for awhile now. It is going to catch up and it is going to be a very bad day...


I believe our full size classes are going to have to progress to index class's just on the grounds of safety at the end of the day.



Rob I have meet you a few times but never really discussed anything like this with you but it seems to me you have realized the same thing about the safety factor?

 

[SHughes]

What if NHRDA and the Outlaw events were to increase their margin of safety?

Say require a CM cage in a thicker wall tubing, maybe even larger tubing as well? I'm not sure I can afford CM, but I will definitely have a heavier wall MS cage in my build. Slowing down is rarely an option so we must make them safer...even if we have to tighten up the rules.

Personally, I know I'm a nobody and it's not popular, but I think NHRDA should up the weight of PS to match the Outlaws...it's only 400 pounds, and I think SS should be heavier as well, say 6000 (I have thought this all along).

I also wonder how many trucks are outside the limits of crank centerline...maybe not a lot but a few I would guess.

 

[IdahoRob]

Rob I have meet you a few times but never really discussed anything like this with you but it seems to me you have realized the same thing about the safety factor?

Yes sir, Max'd Out has a 2" tubing cage which is above what is required. I won't say it is safe at 150mph but it makes me feel better at this weight than the minimum spec tubing that is required.

This stuff is a blast. Hard work but rewarding, but when it comes down to it, safety is first in my mind especially now that my wife is driving.

 

[SHughes]

Yes sir, Max'd Out has a 2" tubing cage which is above what is required. I won't say it is safe at 150mph but it makes me feel better at this weight than the minimum spec tubing that is required.

This stuff is a blast. Hard work but rewarding, but when it comes down to it, safety is first in my mind especially now that my wife is driving.

SHoes likes this.

Is you cage CM or MS? Just curious.

 

[12vriviera]

You say that about your wife driving Rob, i couldn't imagine what is going through my wives head every pass I make, or anyones women for that matter!

 

[BIGRPOWR]

Go as fast as you want but please make sure all safety equipment has been looked at, updated, and added into these discussions.

i would assume even if the competitor overlooked it, the track wouldnt.

 

[BIGRPOWR]

Yes sir, Max'd Out has a 2" tubing cage which is above what is required. I won't say it is safe at 150mph but it makes me feel better at this weight than the minimum spec tubing that is required.

This stuff is a blast. Hard work but rewarding, but when it comes down to it, safety is first in my mind especially now that my wife is driving.

not sure how much safer you could be. thats a great place to over-do it. i assume your cage is chromoly.

 

[Runninlean]

i would assume even if the competitor overlooked it, the track wouldnt.

You would be surprised at some of the things that get over looked. I remember all kinds of people crying this year about tech and they are no where near as strict as a true NHRA tech inspector.

 

[Subman631]

Interesting thread, how many of the Prostreet trucks are at the 4500 limit now? Probably only a couple of the 2 wheel drives. One of our biggest problems with these super quick heavy trucks is breaking and oil downs. How many times have you guys been to a race when there was T&T the night before and half the field doesn't make qualifying the next day? Or break during qualifying and then you get to see a bunch of single passes or guys just breaking the beams so they don't break. That is boring as hell to watch.

There are a few races we attend where we get a pretty good crowd but for the most part there are not many folks in the stands at many of the events. However, I have never attended an event where there were gassers and diesels running together that the crowd didn't go nuts when the diesels were cleaning up on the gassers.

Heavy trucks with big power break. I think the cheapest thing to do is cap the class at 8.50 and worry about this when they start lifting so as to not break out. I bet is that will be a while.

 

[DieselMonster]

I'm not a racer yet , maybe up and coming , I too realize that CM is spendy .... but its much stronger and safer , Dont know about you all , I have a beautiful wife and 3 great kids ... I'm gonna find a way to make the weight .... the I will worry about the et's .

I too also hope that NHRDA will com up with a reasonable solution , mybe limit the orfice size on the nitrous or limit the turbo sizes or something that will level the playing field a bit and make it more compeditive .

what about making an Unlimited class ... like in circle track ? just a thought sure its been thought of before .. I hope the final decision will make the end result reasonable for most ( of course some will gripe I'm sure , but enjoy what the Lord has given ).

 

[JQmile]

Plenty of street cars over 4K and under 8.50?? You sure about that regulation? I would think exeptions would be made, after all, IRS cars like Vipers and Supras have been running fast for years, and I think IRS was technically limited to 10.99. I wouldn't worry.

 

[RPM Motorsports]

Was talking to a buddy about this over dinner the other night. He brought up a good point about Pro Mod cars being certed.. NHRA is not stopping them from running as fast as they are with their certs/weight ect..

Adding weight to a class is all bad! If weight is added, it makes an impact/crash/accident far worse then it could have been at less weight. Throw a brick at a wall, now throw a styrofoam brick of the same size at the wall. 400lbs is a bunch of momentum, **** even switching to a lite weight helmet made a huge change in accidents when I was running around in circles with the Sprint Car.

Engine restrictions are just a bandaid for innovation.., it will cover the issue for a few years until somebody finds a way around. Then it will be back to the same issue. Look at NASCAR and how far they have come since the first restrictor plate races.. PS is a class where innovation of parts/combos/testing is on the front line, put an index or restrictor on the class and you kill all foward progress IMO..

 

[DIESEL_POWER]

Was talking to a buddy about this over dinner the other night. He brought up a good point about Pro Mod cars being certed.. NHRA is not stopping them from running as fast as they are with their certs/weight ect..

Adding weight to a class is all bad! If weight is added, it makes an impact/crash/accident far worse then it could have been at less weight. Throw a brick at a wall, now throw a styrofoam brick of the same size at the wall. 400lbs is a bunch of momentum, **** even switching to a lite weight helmet made a huge change in accidents when I was running around in circles with the Sprint Car.

Engine restrictions are just a bandaid for innovation.., it will cover the issue for a few years until somebody finds a way around. Then it will be back to the same issue. Look at NASCAR and how far they have come since the first restrictor plate races.. PS is a class where innovation of parts/combos/testing is on the front line, put an index or restrictor on the class and you kill all foward progress IMO..

Pro mods are also lighter than the max weight spec on purpose, otherwise they'd be in the pits.

still no way around it being as heavy as ps trucks are. Limiting engine parts Improves innovation by the way... and in this case would help resolve a problem, and bring parity to the class.

AND cost less for the racer and builder due to less "expiremental" stuff and the carnage due to it.

 

[GreenMeanie5.9]

So if you limit the motors what do you limit them to????

There are a few trucks making over 1800 hp. Are you just going to tell thoes guys you have to sell your parts and start over? That wont fly, then if you do that then the weight needs to be brought up on the 2wds to minimum 5k because thats about the weight of the lightes 4wds.

 

[DIESEL_POWER]

So if you limit the motors what do you limit them to????

There are a few trucks making over 1800 hp. Are you just going to tell thoes guys you have to sell your parts and start over? That wont fly, then if you do that then the weight needs to be brought up on the 2wds to minimum 5k because thats about the weight of the lightes 4wds.

you limit the few or the rest will have to mortgage there house to keep up!!!

class parity is a good thing, it brings competition

All you'd have to do is limit boost PSI with a boost controller just like NHRA does...that would be a great start. i bet if 55 psi was the cap. ET's and MPH would come much closer together.

The point of drag racing is equal equipment and good drivers going at it!

Because there is a very good chance that NHRA will look at the times, weight and current certs and make everyone get a new cage with strictor saftey rules costing several thousdands..... The cheaper way, safer way, and more competitive way is to limit the power some.

 

[DIESEL_POWER]

You could allways go 1/8mile too. More and more tracks are doing it. fast racers like it, crowd likes it....its coming.