Announcing Our New Twin Turbo Kit.

Status
Not open for further replies.
DPDIESEL said:
I don't need to do any research "BUD". I used to work at Bullydog. I guess you completely missed the point so I will try and spell it out for you, sorry but I don't have any crayon. Just because two products are the same doesn't make them copies.Hopefully that clears up what I was trying to say.
Click to expand...

Sorry I dont understand "CRAYON" I like magic marker asshole!
 
morkable said:
I think that this post is really starting to go downhill. I think that DP has some good points. Wether or not he mailed said cheque is totally irrevelant here. If he was posting this same thing on that site, well then it would matter.

I think that maybe though it isnt so much as the fact that it was copied, as how it was copied that is the issue. Like it was stated earlier in this thread, it is pretty hard not to make it work if it isnt in the very least similar.

It is my take that the problem that started this is that Nathan beleives that IIS copied exactly his system, and then claimed it as their own. That then becomes more than just copying, more like plagurism.


JMHO

Kevin
Click to expand...

I agree
 
luvinacummins said:
Sorry I dont understand "CRAYON" I like magic marker asshole!
Click to expand...

Sorry man. One of my buddies came into the shop yesterday and said that to me and I thought it was funny as hell so I thought I would use it on here. LOL

Your post was just the first post I could use it on. :Cheer:
 
DPDIESEL said:
So let me get this right Opie...... Nobody ever made a aftermarket shaft for a transmission before you? If by some miracle there was somebody else that made an aftermarket shaft before you then that would make yours a copy. It doesn't matter that yours may work better or that it uses different material. It still looks the same, still goes in the same place so it must be a direct copy.

Nothing against your shafts cause I do personally think they are the best in the business. Just trying to show that the argument is a little stupid.

Another example. Bullydog was the first to crack the code on Common Rail Dodges to be able to program with a downloader. I guess that means that a Smarty is just a copy.... Even though the Smarty IMO works better, it still does the same thing. Plugs into the same spot, downloads the same way. Must be a copy.

And as for our company not making anything "revolutionary" to the diesel market. I guess that is why we are a shop/installer and not a manufacture.
Click to expand...

He did copy, the OEM shaft. ;-)
 
DPDIESEL said:
So let me get this right Opie...... Nobody ever made a aftermarket shaft for a transmission before you? If by some miracle there was somebody else that made an aftermarket shaft before you then that would make yours a copy. It doesn't matter that yours may work better or that it uses different material. It still looks the same, still goes in the same place so it must be a direct copy.

Nothing against your shafts cause I do personally think they are the best in the business. Just trying to show that the argument is a little stupid.

Another example. Bullydog was the first to crack the code on Common Rail Dodges to be able to program with a downloader. I guess that means that a Smarty is just a copy.... Even though the Smarty IMO works better, it still does the same thing. Plugs into the same spot, downloads the same way. Must be a copy.

And as for our company not making anything "revolutionary" to the diesel market. I guess that is why we are a shop/installer and not a manufacture.
Click to expand...

Really thats what you really think?

Nobody makes aftermarket shafts for the 47/48RE as strong as mine, and depending on requirements they are actually quite different from stock but all have to be compatible with the tranny dimension specs. I was the first to make outputs , intermediates, one piece inputs, overdrive sections, different planetary gear ratios, steels, pie apply plates.. I have made several different parts for tranny shops several years running. FWIW I am the only one in the Dodge trans aftermarket to make parts that do handle the 1000 plus hp trucks in the real world. If my arguments are stupid so are my coolant bypass, fuel pump systems, flexplates, steels, drums, wave springs….
I am not an installer but give my customers the products to take out anything you got for sell. Guess I am not Revolutionary but even a non revolutionary enthusiast like myself thinks it sucs azz how dirty the diesel community is to new idealists, as they end up being nothing more than free engineering for copy cats.
Point is yes, MPI has been copied to the TEE, anyone that says differently is either a dealer or may actually be stupid. And as for programmers whos Chev program was the first by far to crack the 1000 hp barrier? Was it one of the big names selling programers right now? Several in the Chev community have taken from what MPI helped to accomplished years ago now. I hope that you one day first hand get to feel for yourself what it is that I am trying to get at.

See you at the track,

Opie
 
Last edited:
Opie said:
Really thats what you really think?

Nobody makes aftermarket shafts for the 47/48RE as strong as mine, and depending on requirements they are actually quite different from stock but all have to be compatible with the tranny dimension specs. I was the first to make outputs , intermediates, one piece inputs, overdrive sections, different planetary gear ratios, steels, pie apply plates.. I have made several different parts for tranny shops several years running. FWIW I am the only one in the Dodge trans aftermarket to make parts that do handle the 1000 plus hp trucks in the real world. If my arguments are stupid so are my coolant bypass, fuel pump systems, flexplates, steels, drums, wave springs….
I am not an installer but give my customers the products to take out anything you got for sell. Guess I am not Revolutionary but even a non revolutionary enthusiast like myself thinks it sucs azz how dirty the diesel community is to new idealists, as they end up being nothing more than free engineering for copy cats.
Point is yes, MPI has been copied to the TEE, anyone that says differently is either a dealer or may actually be stupid. And as for programmers whos Chev program was the first by far to crack the 1000 hp barrier? Was it one of the big names selling programers right now? Several in the Chev community have taken from what MPI helped to accomplished years ago now. I hope that you one day first hand get to feel for yourself what it is that I am trying to get at.

See you at the track,

Opie
Click to expand...

I think DPDiesel was making the point that there are only so many ways you can go about making a part (revolutionary, new, or otherwise) within the given parameters. In this case II's twin kit looks alot like the MPI twin kit, to say it's an EXACT COPY is ridiculous. How would you recommend II do it? Mount them in a different place, just so it looks nothing like ANYONE elses kit? What would make everyone happy? No one ever make a twin kit with the turbos anywhere near where anyone else puts them? Just to avoid being called a copy cat? Either way, it gives everyone else another option in buying Dmax twins, it's done, it's out there, and everyone calling names isn't going to persuade anyone to pull their product off the market. Just my $.02
 
If the kits are an exact copy you should be able to swap pipes between the kits and fit perfect. Anyone want to buy both kits and find out...
 
Black05DMAX said:
I think DPDiesel was making the point that there are only so many ways you can go about making a part (revolutionary, new, or otherwise) within the given parameters. In this case II's twin kit looks alot like the MPI twin kit, to say it's an EXACT COPY is ridiculous. How would you recommend II do it? Mount them in a different place, just so it looks nothing like ANYONE elses kit? What would make everyone happy? No one ever make a twin kit with the turbos anywhere near where anyone else puts them? Just to avoid being called a copy cat? Either way, it gives everyone else another option in buying Dmax twins, it's done, it's out there, and everyone calling names isn't going to persuade anyone to pull their product off the market. Just my $.02
Click to expand...

I have scene other Dmax twin turbos and they look nothing like the MPI kit. But what ever floats your boat.
 
I think the bottom line to this thread is this. Unless II actually does buy a MPI kit and redesigns theirs to look nothing like any part of the MPI kit you are still going to have people thinking it is a copy.

I do have one question though. I know Nathan wasn't the first to do a Cummins twin turbo kit. I've seen his kit and it looks VERY similar to kits that were out before his. I don't think you copied them Nathan but I am sure you looked at some other twin setup before you made your Cummins twins. Isn't that the same thing as you are accusing Industrial of doing?
 
DPDIESEL said:
I think the bottom line to this thread is this. Unless II actually does buy a MPI kit and redesigns theirs to look nothing like any part of the MPI kit you are still going to have people thinking it is a copy.

I do have one question though. I know Nathan wasn't the first to do a Cummins twin turbo kit. I've seen his kit and it looks VERY similar to kits that were out before his. I don't think you copied them Nathan but I am sure you looked at some other twin setup before you made your Cummins twins. Isn't that the same thing as you are accusing Industrial of doing?
Click to expand...

Right... Isn't Nathan still the only one to use the stock top turbo on his late 3rd gens? Well there is that and his kits pay closer attention to detail and for some reason his kits seem to outshine everyone elses at the dynos/track. Nathan is an innovator, not the copier that you claim.


Step up make something new.
 
DPDIESEL said:
I think the bottom line to this thread is this. Unless II actually does buy a MPI kit and redesigns theirs to look nothing like any part of the MPI kit you are still going to have people thinking it is a copy.

I do have one question though. I know Nathan wasn't the first to do a Cummins twin turbo kit. I've seen his kit and it looks VERY similar to kits that were out before his. I don't think you copied them Nathan but I am sure you looked at some other twin setup before you made your Cummins twins. Isn't that the same thing as you are accusing Industrial of doing?
Click to expand...

How often has nathan been called a copy cat?
How often has I.I been accussed of copying a product.
 
DPDIESEL said:
I think the bottom line to this thread is this. Unless II actually does buy a MPI kit and redesigns theirs to look nothing like any part of the MPI kit you are still going to have people thinking it is a copy.

I do have one question though. I know Nathan wasn't the first to do a Cummins twin turbo kit. I've seen his kit and it looks VERY similar to kits that were out before his. I don't think you copied them Nathan but I am sure you looked at some other twin setup before you made your Cummins twins. Isn't that the same thing as you are accusing Industrial of doing?
Click to expand...



You must have missed the part where I said Jason from NW Custom and I built twins for his 12v and my 24V in '02 (HX40/HT3B). He later started selling them through PDR as seperate kits. I helped him standardized the kit so it would work for both trucks. Up to that point the only commercial kit built was for a HX35 and HT3B from Scheid (or at least that is the only one I had ever seen pictures of. Scheid used big non wastegated exhaust housings on the 35's with 1/2" 6 or 8 bolt flanges welded to the outlet) The kit's Jason and I built looked nothing like those. At the time I wasn't doing diesel stuff for work but built many different twin sets for myself and others on the side. As far as I know I was the first person to build with a B2 from TAD (now known as a S400) in early '03. The B2/S400 has basically made the HT3B a dinosaur to build with. I'm pretty sure I was also the first to put a Big Brother in a 24V. I think Jim Fulmer was the first overall in his 12V. So yeah I copied someone I just don't know who :rolleyes:. Just because my stuff looks like someone elses doesn't mean I copied them. I didn't sell very many kit until I started doing this full time and that may be why people think I copied others.
 
HIGH TECH RAM said:
How often has nathan been called a copy cat? 0-2 times, depends who's lying.
How often has I.I been accussed of copying a product. 8-87, depends who you ask
Click to expand...

Nathan, your getting your asss kicked!!! or are we playing golf?? :hehe:

OH thats right were playing a game of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ETHICS
 
This really is a dumb arguement. Which kit looks alike. Theres only so many way you can do a Twin turbo on diesels. Who cares if the lok the same at the end of the day it's about performance reliability and who has the money.
 
The old kit that Nathan is talking about was from Mitchell, and I have one of them on the bench. He is correct that the ones they built are totally different, we were (all of us) building Twins together and talking about what we were doing together, the concept worked well and it was an improvement over what we had been exposed to at the time....this was the fall of 02! Ken Diaz did bring the S300 (B1) into play then the B2 after, that started this storm as we all know now. Jason had the Big Brother in his hands and I aquired it to build a new set of Twins running an HX-40 on top of it to the tune of 793 hp in the fall of 04'. Copied, well yes I did with permission from Piers, same type setup........I ran out of his shop then!

Jim
 
Wow talk about a long read.

Sounds to me like II has some issues that need to be worked out. I have dealt with MPI in the past and there customer service is second to none.

I have built and designed a few things in the past not for the diesel world but for my circle track car. I considered it a compliment when people would copy my stuff. The only time I would get upset is when they claimed it as their own idea. Give credit where credit is due. It sounds to me that if II would step up and admit that that they got some ideas from MPI it would go a long way to making things better. Lies only breed lies and from what I am reading that is what seems to be whats going on.
 
Industrial Injection just needs to send me a test set so I can run them against all you guys this spring!

Industrial guys- you can PM me if you are interested!

A nice chrome pipe set would be fine.

Dix
 
Texasmax said:
Industrial Injection just needs to send me a test set so I can run them against all you guys this spring!

Industrial guys- you can PM me if you are interested!

A nice chrome pipe set would be fine.

Dix
Click to expand...

That a hell of an idea. I have two LBZ's with MPI kits on them now, I could take one off and put in the II kit, wouldn't have to move the overflow bottle or battery, should bolt right up. We could test them both.:poke:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top