Cam comparison

Greg.
Very good info. Nice. :clap:

What the mags need to do is purchase these cams Max spool, F1, Hamilton, ,and Diesel Pros through a third party and test them.
Done deal.
An independent test. Performance and customer service.
IMHO, there is enough interest to justify an article.
 
zstroken said:
You guys all stink, I know which stuff is the best, you don't have all of the cam data anyway. You couldn't post the stuff. You wouldn't post the stuff.
:poke:
Well go ahead and post the stuff:hehe:
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:hehe:
 
We are currently out of Helix 2 cast iron cams. We have 30 or so Billet Steel Spartan cams with the Helix 2 grind on them. They are a drop in cam just like the Helix 2 cast cam.

We do like people to install our new ( spartan ) tappets with the Spartan cam.

I can supply a Spartan cam, Spartan tappets, our newest Pro/Sport springs, assembly lube, bronze retainer, and our custom blended Heavy ZDDP break-in cam lubricant.

I gotta tell you guys that we have tested a ton of cam grinds from every possible angle during the development of the Helix 2 and Helix 3 cams. We didnt compromise, copy Cummins marine lobes or others lobes. We paid dearly for the masters we had made to the tune of thousands of dollars per master when it was all said and done. Yes, we moved lobes around on the intake and exhaust. Changed duration from more to less and back. Moved the centerline, the lobe seperation and every possible tweak we could. I personally spent hundreds of hours grinding the changes into the cams myself on a Berco grinder at my friends shop in Dallas. We dynoed, road tested, trailer towed, etc. for the months preceeding release. The Helix 2 is a great compromise between many factors: wear and tear, power, economy and usability for a large range of engine configuration.

Remember there were NO new, unground cams available when we started the Helix program nearly 6 years ago. Regrinds were the competition and until recently we were still alone. I watched the "regrinds are great" crowd sell their cams and tell us all that new cams were a waste of money only to later find themselves their own new cam blanks.

Back Pressure checking with different turbo combinations is a paramount requirement for this test. I would require this to be done. I know you guys dont have the ability to test piston crown temps as we did, but that is a huge step to developing a cam that wont increase wear and lower piston durability for a spool up increase. Holding the exhaust valve closed for too long is a recipe for melted pistons and the grinders that do limited testing and look for max spool are most likely unaware of this potential hazzard.

So far the Helix 2 has sold into the thousands. Durability has been great. All engine types produce great power and the CR engines set records on high power consistantly. We do this with less aggressive lobe ramps and slower rates than anyone. Using a jack hammer to extract a few HP from an already overfueled engine in many cases is ill advised.
 
Soup Nazi said:
I can supply a Spartan cam, Spartan tappets, our newest Pro/Sport springs, assembly lube, bronze retainer, and our custom blended Heavy ZDDP break-in cam lubricant.
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Boy, this comparison might go some where. Who would have thunk it. :clap:
 
Looks like this may get done after all!

Don, Greg, Zach-- and maybe the others if they play, but those three seem to be the core so far...

If this still ends up being a thing that Diesel Nut does, I know it's going to be as fair and unbiased as possible. AS Don just alluded to, there is much more pertinent info that would be great to have but in this kind of "shootout" is simply not going to be feasible due to constraints of time, labor and resources.

I have no inherent personal interest in the outcome of this, other than the interest in the honest results, but will be there throughout if for nothing else my own personal satisfaction that the results were come by as honest and fairly as possible.

I think this is going to shape up as one of the most meaningful efforts in garnering knowledge on a single subject to date.
 
I am getting a pretty good kick out of this stuff guys.
My cam made 23 hp more than the h2. Period. The engine came on much faster with the 181/210, so at 2500 rpm the engine was almost to full power while the same engine with the h2 installed was still trying to spool the laggy turbo. At that given rpm it made 200hp or so more. Greg it is easy to say all of these things sitting behind your keyboard at the firestation. How about you and Don come down May 12th at 8 am to dyno the truck with my cam. I will have the H2 back in the truck before 2pm. We will conclude the day with another dyno run featuring the H2. I am being straightforward and honest, hiding nothing. You keep calling me out on the data, I have your answers right here. Either take me up on it or stop knocking me. If may 12th interferes with your day job, you tell me the date that works for you. I WILL back up my data! BTW this goes for anybody that wants real proof, come on down and see it with your own eyes.

As far as the cam comparison, I will gladly enter my products into a valid cam comparison. At the same time, my horse won't run in a fixed race. With the amount of time and money I have invested in this project, I have to know that it will be fair, I will install my cam and set the valves.

Diesel Nut had it not been for your comments against my cam and for the Maxspool I would have been all in. I am not knocking you, just saying it appears you already have a favorite. Greg, I don't know why you would not enter up with Chad's cam article. It appears you have some bad blood. Greg,Don, why do we need to test in California if we all live in Texas? Pick a shop in Texas that we can all agree is impartial, lets agree on a truck, which dyno etc. Lets give the people what they want, without any doubt that the data is flawed.

I mean it on the may 12th dyno. Will you be there Greg?
 
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Soup Nazi said:
I can supply a Spartan cam, Spartan tappets, our newest Pro/Sport springs, assembly lube, bronze retainer, and our custom blended Heavy ZDDP break-in cam lubricant.
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:clap: Don is IN!

:rockwoot:

Awesome. Good luck!
 
Back Pressure checking with different turbo combinations is a paramount requirement for this test. I would require this to be done. I know you guys dont have the ability to test piston crown temps as we did, but that is a huge step to developing a cam that wont increase wear and lower piston durability for a spool up increase. Holding the exhaust valve closed for too long is a recipe for melted pistons and the grinders that do limited testing and look for max spool are most likely unaware of this potential hazzard.

Hey Don, You have it all backwards. If you hold the exh valve closed longer(what the factory cam does) it spools slower. Open it sooner and the opposite is true, better spool. And feel free to bring any piston temp checking equipment you want. I think that should be included data as well.
 
Hey Zach would you mind a spectator on the 12th, if not pm me details and Ill see if the wife will let me out unsupervised with her video camera.
 
the only thing this test cant prove is LONGEVITY.i sometimes drive my truck 100+miles per day. but almost like trannys when can you truely sing praise?by the time i put 100,000 miles on there will be new cams out there.starting this challenge all over again!are any of you cam builders able to simulate 1 or 2 hundred thousand miles in testing?
 
Hamilton Cams said:
Greg,Don, why do we need to test in California if we all live in Texas? Pick a shop in Texas that we can all agree is impartial, lets agree on a truck, which dyno etc. Lets give the people what they want, without any doubt that the data is flawed.
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How about Relentless Diesel?

RD routinely posts good stuff on their forums with lots of detailed data to back stuff up like in this post:

Relentless Diesel View topic - 2006 Cummins buildup
 
duallyspeed said:
the only thing this test cant prove is LONGEVITY.i sometimes drive my truck 100+miles per day. but almost like trannys when can you truely sing praise?by the time i put 100,000 miles on there will be new cams out there.starting this challenge all over again!are any of you cam builders able to simulate 1 or 2 hundred thousand miles in testing?
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you want power you give up the longevity of any motor, you pay to play now im sure any cam in a mild truck is not going to cause problems over a stock cam. if your pushing 1000hp to the ground things go wrong its the nature of the beast.
 
thats a good point.but this test here is not on 1000hp trucks.and it is not intended to.thats why i asked it.
 
Cashwheel, I would be glad to do the tests again. I wish all of the people questioning the results would show up on one day but they will probably just talk trash from behind the keyboard. I will see if we can get a few others than just yourself to watch the tests. I will only do this comparison one more time. It ties up the shop and pushes the paying customers back. Maybe a video is in order.

Zach
 
Just let me know, I'm getting more and more curious about the results, and would gladly shoot video. If Greg would be in for it, I bet it would make a youtube hit.
 
Greg? Do you want to be in a youtube short? Bring a cam if you are up for it, same deal you can even install it. Don? If you are up for it, I will give you my guys for the day. They will install or do whatever you want. Bring a Spartan for the shootout. I will let each of you install your cams and set your valves, and to make sure there is no questioning the results, I will lockout the wastegate controller, and the t.s. The smarty is tntr and is vinlocked, I will have an independant third party to hold it so no settings are changed.


Zach
 
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Zach - As I have said I have no profit in the results. I am totally open to testing in the blind. I actually like the idea over knowing who's cam we are installing.

Don - Thank you for the input, and we appreciate your involvement. As for back pressure testing, I can rig a drive pressure gauge, if that is to your liking. Be kinda interested to see if drive pressure ramps up differently depending on the grind . . . .


The question about the test cams, Don, Greg, Zach, how you would you prefer that be handled? I threw that idea out there thinking it would be a hit, but maybe not so much. Do you want your products back, or do you think we should try and go with my original plan. Thoughts?

Besides the test parameters noted by Greg and Don, anything else you would like to see? Members? Same question.
 
sound good Jason , i'll check on a RPM performance data logger for the test ,

I 'll waite and do the real magazine test , as I'm sure Don and Bill agree ,
 
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