Cam comparison

So let me get this straight Greg and Don, You are going to call b.s on my back to back test results and then not be man enough to face the music when I called you at your game. You boys can have it. This days of our lives stuff has gotten old. I will not enter any of my products in any comparison with either of you. Don, if you keep using those narrow lobes and slow ramp rates, Greg and fletch are going to mop the floor with the Helix lineup.



Zach Hamilton
 
so if your top billing hamilton then why not play? the feild will be level you will have a way to prove what you say is true. And we who are buying the stuff will have a better know how on what type of cam they want and how to select the right cam. And NONE OF U put out any type of duration specs, lobe sep specs, lobe lift and lobe centers info along with valve lift.. so that leads to the fact all i see when i shop for a cam is the school yard "my cam is better then your cam". im sure you guys can all agree there is no magic bullet for all trucks out there, it is impossable for you guys to custom ground each and every cam to fit every person that orders one, needs. I see that, so u all try to find a middle that will best suit a certin style of truck that most ppl in the market have and will appel and work best for the masses, I get that also. You all have something to gain in this i dont see anything you guys can lose, you will get a double blind test and more advertising and will only cost you the gear you enter. i know its about 5 grand or so for a one page add in diesel mag for a month so if we can get a them to pic the story up which i dont see why not thats 5 grand per page of free mag space you all get, pretty nice cherry on top of the cake. Last thing i know all of you are prob pretty tired like Zach is of the days of our lifes stuff and hell i am and im not a mfg of cams, so why not sit behind your keyboard and lets figure out the best way to help you boys meet in the middle, after all were not trying to get Israel and Iran to go to the prom together. Lay the egos aside you have all done alot for our sport more then i ever will, this is not going to be a grudge fest style thing its what you mfg make of it.
 
We dont list lift or duration on the website, but have posted the information on the Helix 2 and the Helix 3 cams several times.

Here is it one more time:

Helix 2:

Intake Lift .271"
Intake Duration 188.5 degrees @ .050"

Exhaust Lift is .289"
Exhaust Duration 208.5 degrees @ .050"

Lobe Seperation 110.3 degrees


Helix 3:

Intake Lift .285"
Intake Duration 185.5 degrees @ .050"

Exhaust Lift .321"
Exhaust Duration 215.8 degrees @ .050"

Lobe Seperation is 112 degrees
 
Lobe seperation is wide on the Helix cams to avoid exhaust gases from high back pressure engines reversing flow and ending up in the intake track. I have seen many cams with tight lobe seperation have this very problem. If you find exhaust nasties under your intake valves, in the intake runners, or worse; in the manifold you have a reversion problem. Engines with equal back pressure and intake pressure can suffer reversion.
 
bif bif bif Heck Zach get on a plane & do it......That will keep it fair

I still love my helix 2.....It has been god knows how many passes with absolutley zero failures....
 
sweet so now i learned something new and we are one step closer in the direction we all want, i just want to see this get done and i am the average joe buyer i know very little about all the teck stuff that goes into a cam. i do know that i run a helix two bolt on with dons springs and the cam was great for what i had at the time now im looking to go with a more agressive cam. I have a good idea of what i want but i would like to see some testing and i think this would kick azz. even though its on a truck with a comp diffrent setup then mine and diffrent purpose.
 
Soup Nazi said:
We dont list lift or duration on the website, but have posted the information on the Helix 2 and the Helix 3 cams several times.

Here is it one more time:

Helix 2:

Intake Lift .271"
Intake Duration 188.5 degrees @ .050"

Exhaust Lift is .289"
Exhaust Duration 208.5 degrees @ .050"

Lobe Seperation 110.3 degrees


Helix 3:

Intake Lift .285"
Intake Duration 185.5 degrees @ .050"

Exhaust Lift .321"
Exhaust Duration 215.8 degrees @ .050"

Lobe Seperation is 112 degrees
Click to expand...

Hey, Don. Is this the redesigned specs for the h-3 cam? I remember a while back that you were saying the results of testing were not what you had hoped for and were doing some slight changing. I am not trying to start anything but it is for personal knowledge. Heck, I don't know maybe I was dreaming and you never said you were changing the h-3.
 
This graph will help show the difference in the stock Common Rail cam and the Helix 2.

It has the lift and the crankshaft position on the graph. Anyone can spend a moment and see when the valves open and close and at what point they do so in relation to the crankshafts rotation.

The red line is the exhaust lobe of the Helix 2. As you can see the Helix 2 opens earlier than the stock cam and closes slightly later, but not much.

The dark blue line is the stock Common Rail intake lobe. It clearly shows the intake lobe on the Helix 2 opening later, but staying open much longer VS the Common Rail stock cam. The stock CR intake lobe is 161 degrees of duration VS the 188.5 degrees on the Helix 2. High levels of increased airflow from the Helix 2 are from two main reasons: Longer duration of 27 degrees and delaying the opening of the intake valve after the exhaust valve has further closed. This is 7.5 degrees longer duration than the Hamilton stage 3 intake lobe and with their close lobe seperation the exhaust valve is still open further than ours, allowing higher reversion and less intake flow. Remember the exhaust valve is open to the turbine housing where back pressure will try and push its way back into the intake tract if you dont delay the intake valve opening.
 

Attachments

  • H2CR.jpg
    H2CR.jpg
    52 KB · Views: 84
JOESHTRDDSL said:
Hey, Don. Is this the redesigned specs for the h-3 cam? I remember a while back that you were saying the results of testing were not what you had hoped for and were doing some slight changing. I am not trying to start anything but it is for personal knowledge. Heck, I don't know maybe I was dreaming and you never said you were changing the h-3.
Click to expand...

No this is the original Helix 3, but to avoid confusion between engines, the H3 is changing. The H3 rocks in high RPM engines, but more people are under 4K than over 4K in RPM ability. With the current volume of sales in the RPM limited CR engine, the H3 was for some, too much cam.

I have a new H3 for the CR coming. Hang on, it will be crazy, but for higher RPM only. 4K and up:rockwoot:​
 
Soup Nazi said:
We dont list lift or duration on the website, but have posted the information on the Helix 2 and the Helix 3 cams several times.

Here is it one more time:

Helix 2:

Intake Lift .271"
Intake Duration 188.5 degrees @ .050"

Exhaust Lift is .289"
Exhaust Duration 208.5 degrees @ .050"

Lobe Seperation 110.3 degrees


Helix 3:

Intake Lift .285"
Intake Duration 185.5 degrees @ .050"

Exhaust Lift .321"
Exhaust Duration 215.8 degrees @ .050"

Lobe Seperation is 112 degrees
Click to expand...

By the way Don nice switch. All of the H2's I have seen were 190@.050" on the intake and .260" lift. Your cam is getting closer to the Hamilton every day, congrats!
John, I'm glad to hear you have good luck with your H2.
 
Zach,

Why the bashing of other vendors? It appears you are worried that their products might overshadow yours. Thus you go on the offensive about how thier products are crap and guys are copying your design etc. I believe the guys you are talking smack about have been in the product game longer than you so how is it they are copying your design? Why not just work on making a good product that will prove itself rather than you having to badmouth others for sales?
 
Jetpilot said:
Zach,

Why the bashing of other vendors? It appears you are worried that their products might overshadow yours. Thus you go on the offensive about how thier products are crap and guys are copying your design etc. I believe the guys you are talking smack about have been in the product game longer than you so how is it they are copying your design? Why not just work on making a good product that will prove itself rather than you having to badmouth others for sales?
Click to expand...

well put
 
Hamilton Cams said:
By the way Don nice switch. All of the H2's I have seen were 190@.050" on the intake and .260" lift. Your cam is getting closer to the Hamilton every day, congrats!
John, I'm glad to hear you have good luck with your H2.
Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't measure it right! :doh:
 
Years before hamilton diesel was even in business the masters for the Helix cams were produced. Continuous testing went through June of 2005. Tweaks of all parameters are now being made on the fly when needed as we have gone to CNC grinding. Everyone else is using decades old manual machines and they need to adjust the head to make changes. Yuk! BTW, the hamilton cams are not really hamilton cam lobes of their own design. They use lobes from Cummins marine cams and other profiles previously produced. An example would be the intake lobe they use. LOL Its a copy from the marine 12V engine.

Exhaust Side: I suggest we get some comparitive numbers here. I am accused of opening the exhaust valve too early by hamilton, but where does his open? I posted a graph that shows all the opening and closing points compared to the stock CR cam. Whats the intake and exhaust centerline on the hamilton? Where is their graph? data? Do you even know when the exhaust valve opens and closes or is that left up to Colt cams who does your contract grinding?

Intake Side: hamilton says the big stick flows all this extra air, but it has 7.5 degrees LESS intake duration than the 5+ year old Helix 2.
 
Don, The H2 that I was given by one of your customers 3 or 4 months ago is the one we used for the test. The cam you are now selling is quite a different animal. It is plain to see why you didn't want any part of that test, but were quick to jump in a test with your new cam profile. Question is how long ago did you change your profile? How many of your customers have the older sub par cam.? Just looking for a straight answer, do you have one?

I will lay off now, these threads don't seem to be accomplishing anything productive.


Zach Hamilton
 
Zach,

I see you are once again quick to jump in and call Don's information BS. I don't know if F1 changed its cam or not but a ton of the highest HP trucks in the country are running the H2 so calling it sub par would be very inappropriate. Why didn't you answer his questions on the exhaust and intakes that he asked above?

I am not bashing but rather inquiring as I have no dog in this hunt, my current cam is just the plain old cummins OEM version.
 
I have not changed anything on the H2. The graphs above are generated on software from the profile of the H2 measurements. I dont have a new profile.

I think it is time you posted the intake and exhaust centerlines like I asked. This will help everyone understand what cam does what and why it does it.

I told everyone you have 7.5 degrees less intake duration on yor cam, but you say the big stick flows tons more air. LOL That would of course be impossible since the intake valve on your cam closes faster. You cant copy a Cummins marine cam lobe and tell everyone how fast and aggressive the ramp rates are when the marine lobe is downright docile.

Just give us the intake and exhaust centerlines and let us all compare whats really what.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top